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#41 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 11:41 PM

Αληθεια, ειναι παρα πολυ δυσκολη γλωσσα!

#42 Nina

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 02:11 AM

H ελληνική ή η κινεζική γλώσσα;

Wow, we can have monachos in many languages! :) Love this! Who knows Chinese? Maybe we can start a thread with conversations in foreign languages. :)

#43 Mary

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 03:34 AM

H ελληνική ή η κινεζική γλώσσα;

Wow, we can have monachos in many languages! :) Love this! Who knows Chinese? Maybe we can start a thread with conversations in foreign languages. :)


I don't know about this... it's all Greek to me!

Mary

#44 Olga

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 08:09 AM

For the benefit of our friends who can't read Greek:

... δεν θα είναι αυτό ντροπή για τους παππούδες και γιαγιάδες μου;


Transl: Really, my grandparents would find that shameful. (i.e. the thought that Nina doesn't know Greek)

Δεν καταλαβαίνω! Είναι κινέζικα για μένα!

I don't understand! It's all Chinese to me!

Αληθεια, ειναι παρα πολυ δυσκολη γλωσσα!


Truly, it is a very, very difficult language!

H ελληνική ή η κινεζική γλώσσα;


Greek or Chinese?

In the spirit of multilingualism, I'd love to throw in some German, but it's a bit rusty from 27 years of non-use (hmm, where did I put my Langenscheidt?). I could throw in some Russian, but whenever I've tried posting anything in Cyrillic, it shows up as gibberish in the message.

#45 Nina

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 01:24 PM

I don't know about this... it's all Greek to me!

Mary


:) giggles... that was the heart of this disscusion! But in Greek you say: "It is Chinese to me!" :) Because in Greece... ummm.... people kind of know Greek.

#46 Nina

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 01:44 PM

For the benefit of our friends who can't read Greek:
Transl: Really, my grandparents would find that shameful. (i.e. the thought that Nina doesn't know Greek)


Hi Olga :) and thank you!

Concerning the phrase above: I meant it: "wouldn't that be a shame for my grandparents? (if I do not know Gr.)

And for all: the question mark in Greek is ; and not ? .

Ok where is Effie? She is a teacher and she can correct us all. :)

In the spirit of multilingualism, I'd love to throw in some German, but it's a bit rusty from 27 years of non-use (hmm, where did I put my Langenscheidt?). I could throw in some Russian, but whenever I've tried posting anything in Cyrillic, it shows up as gibberish in the message.


Bring it on! :) I am sure that there are people here that will not let your post be a monologue, in any language. But some that I know of, hide their talent. :) Like in spirituality.

#47 Mary

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 01:52 PM

Thank you, Olga! You are very kind.

Speaking neither Greek nor Chinese, nor German, I'm quite handicapped. But I can handle Amharic (spoken in Ethiopia) and Tamil (one of the many Indian languages). My favorite is still English. =)

And for my little Girl, everything she doens't understand is Spanish! =)

I heard last night that they're starting to teach Arabic in some schools in NY. I must admit, it was really good to hear Divine Liturgy in Arabic (and Aramaic) at an Antiochian parish. It felt like the language was finally being used in the right way! =) The guy who read the epistle was really good. He made it sound like music, and I couldn't listen when the Epistle was read the second time in English. It didn't sound as beautiful... =(

Nina... you render me speechless. People in Greece know Greek?! That is so impressive! =) In India, if you dont' understand what someone is saying, it's because "It's all English to them". Only the 'English' part sounds pretty mangled... in my family they call it "Englipeech". Since I don't know too many people outside my family, I wouldn't say that's how all Indian's say it. My family does have a way of twisting things and exaggerating for dramatic effect. =)

Mary

#48 Nina

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 02:42 PM

I heard last night that they're starting to teach Arabic in some schools in NY. I must admit, it was really good to hear Divine Liturgy in Arabic (and Aramaic) at an Antiochian parish. It felt like the language was finally being used in the right way! =) The guy who read the epistle was really good. He made it sound like music, and I couldn't listen when the Epistle was read the second time in English. It didn't sound as beautiful... =(
Mary


If you had not volunteered some specifics, I would have assumed that we have attended the same Antiochian parish recently (there were some ladies with head-scarves there, so you were probably hiding from me :) ). However we agree that the service was fabulous! The one I visited integrated English, Arabic and Greek during Liturgy. It was awesome! God being glorified in many languages! The priest chanted the whole service with such a beautiful passion for God, that I did not want the Liturgy to end! No exaggeration.

Nina... you render me speechless. People in Greece know Greek?! That is so impressive! =) In India, if you dont' understand what someone is saying, it's because "It's all English to them". Only the 'English' part sounds pretty mangled... in my family they call it "Englipeech". Since I don't know too many people outside my family, I wouldn't say that's how all Indian's say it. My family does have a way of twisting things and exaggerating for dramatic effect. =)
Mary


Actually stating the obvious (for humor) is a characteristic of the culture here. Watch teen movies and you will see.

#49 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 04:16 PM

Greeks know Greek - I wish some English knew English!

#50 Nina

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 05:15 PM

Greeks know Greek - I wish some English knew English!


Clarification: I stated the obvious, not to say that Greeks do not know Greek, but to emphasize it and also to explain the difference between the expression in English "It is Greek to me!" and the expression in Greek "It is Chinese to me!" Because, to a non-Greek person it might not occur that saying in Greek "It is Greek to me!" - is an invalid expression. :)

#51 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 05:28 PM

Nina, you wrote : "Ok where is Effie? She is a teacher and she can correct us all. :)"

HA! Last Sunday we had a 40 day memorial service for an uncle of mine and there I met some relatives that I didn't even know I had. When I meet new people my greek goes out the window. I'm basically a very shy person, believe it or not................. To add insult to injury as we were leaving my cousin - up to then my favourite cousin - asked me why after so many years of being here I couldn't speak Greek!!!!!!!!!!

re Chinese. Here we also say " That's all Portugese to me". Apparently Chinese and Portugese to us are what Greek is to the rest of the world (even me according to my cousin).

Is there a saint that we can pray to, one who enables us to learn a language quicker and more easily than normal?????????

A while back I was reading a book about one of the orthodox holy men who up to a certain point was a very bad student of just about everything. After praying ernestly about this and after an enlightening experience, he found he had completely changed and learning became a game to him.

Effie

#52 Olga

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 09:16 AM

re Chinese. Here we also say " That's all Portugese to me".


I thought the saying was "Einai ola papagalissia", meaning "it's all parrot-talk", rather than "einai ola portogalezika" (Portuguese)... :))

#53 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 09:36 AM

Probably Olga. As I mentioned above this week is not a good "GREEK' week for me. I have utterly lost confidence in myself.

It might well be papagalistika and not portogalesika............................

#54 Michael Stickles

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 01:44 PM

I thought the saying was "Einai ola papagalissia", meaning "it's all parrot-talk", rather than "einai ola portogalezika" (Portuguese)... :))


Interesting. In Papua New Guinea, they call their common language "Tok Pisin", which means "bird talk". That's for what they do understand; not sure what they call the things they don't understand. Mi no save mekim tok i bilong dispela samting...

One side thought, linking languages back to Orthodox saints: my wife loves her middle name (Grace) and wanted to use that as her baptismal name, but the only St. Grace I could find was Roman Catholic. However, something on a site listing name-days gave me the idea of trying the Greek word for "grace", and sure enough, there is a Martyr Charis commemorated on January 28 (and about whom I have found absolutely zilch besides the name and the fact that he/she was a martyr - anyone know anything more? I haven't checked any offline resources yet).

In Christ,
Mike

#55 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 02:00 PM

Two possibilities:

Anna: Grace in Hebrew. There are at least 5 Annas in the Calendar.

Joanna: Grace of God in Hebrew. The Righteous Joanna is one of the Myrrhbearing Women. June 27 & the Sunday of the Myrrhbearing Women which is the 3rd Sunday after Pascha.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#56 Nina

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 03:18 PM

Interesting. In Papua New Guinea, they call their common language "Tok Pisin", which means "bird talk". That's for what they do understand; not sure what they call the things they don't understand. Mi no save mekim tok i bilong dispela samting...


Dear Mike,

That is a language not many speak. :)

One side thought, linking languages back to Orthodox saints: my wife loves her middle name (Grace) and wanted to use that as her baptismal name, but the only St. Grace I could find was Roman Catholic. However, something on a site listing name-days gave me the idea of trying the Greek word for "grace", and sure enough, there is a Martyr Charis commemorated on January 28 (and about whom I have found absolutely zilch besides the name and the fact that he/she was a martyr - anyone know anything more? I haven't checked any offline resources yet).

In Christ,
Mike

Yes like Father Raphael said, Anna and Joanna are two possibilities.

I do not know about Martyr Charis. Also out of the names of the Three Graces from antiquity, we have at least one saint: Saint Euphrosine. But the others Aglaia and Thalia might be saints also... I do not know.

What if Celinda talks with your priest and she keeps the name Grace (in English, - I love it also!) and associates it with a great feast of the Holy Spirit, or so. And as my spiritual father said to someone who became Orthodox and kept his name which had no Saint: "You now have the great honor and responsibility, to make a Saint out of that name." :) (We all do, but that guy was going to be the first for his name).

I thought the saying was "Einai ola papagalissia", meaning "it's all parrot-talk", rather than "einai ola portogalezika" (Portuguese)... :))


Dear Olga, sometimes diaspora has a linguistic inheritance and memory, which might differ from the modern language of the source country.

#57 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 07:51 AM

Dear Olga, sometimes diaspora has a linguistic inheritance and memory, which might differ from the modern language of the source country.



That is apparently true. Papagalistika means parrot like and we use it when we say a student has learnt his lesson papagalistika.... repeating it like a parrot without understanding it. Nothing to do with not understanding a foreign language per se.

My mother who has been living in Australia for over 50 years still says post for the post office, familia for family, etc. as she used to when she was here. Here we now say ταχυδρομειο = taxi = fast dromos = road for the post office. She also uses old words for some household items as my f-i-l and grandparents used to do, etc. We have now all become Athenized (if there is such a word) and the old regional words are largely forgotten.

Actually I thought post and familia ( family) were English words and how on earth the old people in north-west Greece used them I have no idea. There are also a lot of French words floating around but as they mainly have to do with clothing items it's understandable that they exist.

Everything changes, nothing remains the same.

I think this also applies to the church. That would be an interesting discussion I think.

Effie

#58 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 08:05 AM

Saint Charis is celebrated on the 28th of January and St. Charikleia on the
1st of September and on the 10th of February, and finally St. Charitini on the 5th of October.

None of the above are in my computer menologion but I found a book with the names in Greek in it and I was able to find the first name there.


Charis, Charikleia, and Charitini are all different meanings of the words joy and grace. The "ch" is pronounced "h". Chari also means mercy or pardon when referring to prisoners who have been granted pardon. This word is blessed because it has so many meanings and all of them good. We say ef-chari-sto = we thank you. We say chai -re -te = our basic greeting when we meet someone. It means "have joy"

The name Ioanna, Joanna, is the female version of John = Ioannis. Before reading Fr. Raphael's post I hadn't known it meant Grace of God in Hebrew but it sounds so beautiful.

This is the link to a very good site I found :

http://www.christoph...day_preface.htm

Effie

I think one of the problems with finding our saints names is the fact that there are many different translations for the same word. For example Charikleia is sometimes spelled Harikleia.

#59 Anthony

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 08:27 AM

Anna: Grace in Hebrew. There are at least 5 Annas in the Calendar.


Is this also the same as Hannah?

#60 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 01:42 PM

Is this also the same as Hannah?


Yes. In fact in the Russian Bible instead of Hannah it is written Anna.

For those who might want more info on possible namesdays for Anna.

For the prophetess Anna who met Christ in the Temple: (cf Luke 2:36) Feb 3 & Aug 28; prophetess Anna: (cf 1 Samuel 2), mother of the prophet Samuel Dec 9.

Righteous Anna mother of the Theotokos: July 25, Sept 9 & Dec 9.

There are also two other categories with multiple dates for a Venerable Mother (this usually means a nun or ascetic) and a Right believing Princess. If someone wants I can look into who these women are and their dates of commemoration.

In Christ- Fr Raphael




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