How do I remove my membership from here?
Posted 08 June 2007 - 01:36 AM
I do not wish to be insulted for standing up for Orthodox Tradition in an Orthodox website and remain here.
How can that be accomplished?
Posted 08 June 2007 - 02:09 AM
Please do not leave this site. If you only remain as an observer. We are all learning here, me especially. Yes, we only have a dozen or so consistent posters and of these we learn who they are and what they understand to be their faith.
But as iron sharpens iron, we also help each other understand the Orthodox Faith. This is however a website which teaches Orthodoxy through Patristic, Monastic and Liturgical studies. It is an online Orthodox University if you will. This is not necessarily the place for opinions or "this is how we did it in my parish" topics. Though these do come out when necessary to help us all understand the goings-on of the Faith.
If you still feel strongly about leaving, I am sure Matthew will make the necessary corrections to the members list. But please don't confuse insult with correction or advice or suggestion. As I said we all learn from each other if for no other reason to better ourselves.
I did not read any insult directed towards you in either Effie's nor Mary's posts. I am grieved you did. I did see the interaction of 3 sisters in Christ desperately trying to make each other understand the others' views and how they felt about them. Right, wrong or indifferent.
Please do not leave this site. There is so much to still learn here even if I personally have to get an encylopedia and dictionary to keep up. There is much to be said for T(t)radition. I try to follow as much as I personally understand. I do not however do it all much to my loss. I am still learning how to deal with myself on the inside as well as the outside.
I hate to think by you leaving Monachos, I will personally lose the benefit from what you know. As I said there are only a dozen or so consistent posters that "know" the ins and outs of Orthodoxy. If you leave we are down to 11. Please reconsider.
Yours in the Faith,
Posted 08 June 2007 - 02:34 AM
I am sorry I've added to your burden and chased you away, after you said you came here to distract yourself, from all the stress you're under. Please forgive me.
I have been extremely selfish - I gained a LOT from my conversations with you, but all you got was pain. I hope you'll find it in your heart to forgive me and stay.
Posted 08 June 2007 - 03:41 AM
If you leave here, who will teach me more about colors for Lent? Who will tell me why all the purple clothes were gone (because you bought them all ) when I was searching to buy some during Lent? Who will tell me more about other things I need to know, that only you might know here? Please do not leave!
Posted 08 June 2007 - 06:13 AM
I am not permanently connected to the Internet by choice because I become addicted to it and I don't want that. Each time I acquire a new Internet connection the first thing I do is re-register with Monachos. net because setting down my thoughts and having them read and commented upon by the members of this forum helps me to "get them straight" in my own head. My way of setting them down is not a way of teaching others but of working out and seeing more clearly the things I need to see.
I did not answer the last few messages on the Head Coverings thread because I did not want to continue a discussion that was obviously causing other Orthodox women grief.
Please don't leave Xenia. It is I who will no longer be posting here.
Monachos was a very important part of my life - especially when Father Averky was alive - but it seems it can no longer be so.
Goodbye and thank you and all the other members, both here in the open forum and in the private messages, with whom I corresponded.
Posted 08 June 2007 - 12:56 PM
Monachos was a very important part of my life - especially when Father Averky was alive - but it seems it can no longer be so.
Dear Effie and Others,
This thread has deep importance to us all. It expresses...no...it SHOUTS...what is lacking since Father Averky reposed (IMHO). It lacks spiritual voices which are permitted the God-given Grace to speak the corrective measure when we (the sheep) wander off into the wrong pasture. Those voices are stifled or prevented from giving us the tools to, the Voice, to come back to the correct pasture and feed. In the name of "dialogue" false teachings are given a voice without the opportunity for learned correction. In honor of "dialogue" and "openness" stray thoughts are not reined in by those who have been given the blessing by God to do so.
I understand Xenia's and Effie's desire to withdraw, for it is my own. I have not done so yet and am still praying for God's guidance. I am questioning the worthiness of remaining in a discussion group where those who are clearly holy people are stifled and those of us who are 'learners' are given freedom to verbosity and falsity.
God forgive us for our misguidedness and have mercy on us who lack the respect and love for God to not kiss the hand of those filled with God's Grace and weep for the sins of the world.
Love in Christ, Athanasia
Posted 08 June 2007 - 02:44 PM
I understand the concern to uphold the standards and teachings of the Church & the frustration that can result when it seems that the very thing which allows for discussion is what leads to unacceptable compromise and silence. I have also at times asked myself which was more important, the freedom to discuss issues or a sense that when it comes to the Church not just anything goes. I have also at times felt some frustration about this.
We have to be very careful however of not blaming others for this situation because I think that this is to a great degree what has happened recently. (It's also what can get most inflamed in a our private conversations with each other). At least as I have thought this through, there is no alternative to a moderated yet free discussion on the internet that will not result in an unacceptable amount of policing from individuals (myself included) who should not be doing this.
We may well have in mind the real blessings of certain people who pointed out what needed pointing out. But this is very different from the idea that a whole internet site could be run in this fashion without things going very much off the rails. Basically what would happen is that everyone would be forced to accept the views of one person. In short order the whole integrity of the forum would be compromised.
The world we are in here at Monachos is different from a parish or monastery where there is much more unity of mind called for. But that's part of the ongoing challenge of this forum which is either something we reckon worthy of personally working with- along with the challenges- or something which isn't.
In any case even in our parishes many contradictory views are heard. There is the freedom to accept or not what the bishop and priest advise or say. So in the part of the Orthodox world that more directly touches us- our parish- constant humbling of ourselves in regards to what we feel is right is also called for. No matter what, this self-humbling in regards to what we feel to be correct, must be a part of our lives whether we are involved in an internet forum or not.
At the end of the day then if we feel that God has given us His blessing to be here at Monachos we need first to see this as a specific type of challenge so that we are not unintentionally forcing the forum into a shape that can only lead to hearing things we agree with. Of course it is very unlikely that any among us is consciously trying to lead things in that direction. But think of it- if the correct view must prevail for our participation here to be worthwhile- and if really I am the one defining what the correct view is- then sooner or later our forum will be a tyranny of one view. That's just the nature of an internet forum as compared to a parish where its conciliar view can more likely operate.
Secondly we are constantly called to anchor correctness in humility so that in fact our actions are of Christ and the Church. Even if we are convinced of some direction to head for we must humble ourselves in terms of what we may have thought was the correct way to get there. There are times when refraining from a word can end up being more correct and getting us to our destination more surely than anything else.
In Christ- Fr Raphael
Posted 08 June 2007 - 09:08 PM
I would like to start with... 'If you leave here, who will teach me more about nettle tea and etc.' However since I posted the same refrain above for Xenia, I feel like I am plagiarizing my previous post.
So I would like to tell you simply how much I value and appreciate both you and Xenia and all brothers and sisters here, even if sometimes it feels like in a Mediterranean movie and less like in an Ingmar Bergman's one (the latter is an idea from Saturday Night Life).
I think that the name of Xenia Rose sums it up for us very well: we are xeni (strangers) but brothers and sisters in Christ and there is no bond stronger than that!
Also we are all roses in the garden of God. Some are red and some are blue, pink, white, yellow etc. Some have aromas and some do not. Some are transplanted and some have thorns. These differences can cause sometimes misunderstandings. But it is ok. We know that things are unintentional. God loves us in the way we are and we strive to progress towards Him. This is a process. We fall and get up. Getting up and trying to stay up is important: this is what Fathers suggest. So please do not leave! We are all roses and children of God. We learn from one another and help one another. I love you all here and I hope that the rainy days do not drive someone away. Because God allows rain for a reason, for us to grow and flourish and enjoy sunshine later.
Posted 09 June 2007 - 06:51 AM
I have discussed this subject and this forum at length with my spiritual father and with my husband. My spiritual father is a simple and good man and my husband is the same. I didn't tell my husband about what was happening on this forum until yesterday and I was astounded (once again) by his insight and his confidence in me. We went over all the messages and discussed them.
Some of the advice I received and my conclusions :
The Orthodox religion is a free religion. There is no place in it for fanaticism.
In church we are invited to participate, we are not forced to participate. We attend church clothed decently and are responsible only for ourselves
We respect each other's views and do not try to force our opinions on others.
We also respect ourselves and our relationship with God - a relationship that is purely personal. We cannot see into another's heart only God can and that's why we don't allow ourselves to criticize others. The way we regard other people and presume to know what is in their minds is an indication of what is in ours.
We forgive others as we would have God forgive us. We feel compassion for the other person because we do not know that person's life and what he or she is going through or has gone through to reach the place they are in now. God is a God of Love and rudeness and disrespect, no matter how cleverly they are concealed in a message, are an indication of that person's spiritual state.
After reading Mathew's message and his mention of the 87 personal messages that were sent to him, I realized that something has changed on this forum. In the past we had disagreements and things got quite uncomfortable sometimes but no-one was accused of motives that they may or may not have had. Mathew says that he found " personalizing characterizations in these messages incredible and deeply saddening."
A forum is a vehicle where people who might have different opinions can express themselves. Another reason I loved this forum was because I could look in on discussions that were beyond my understanding - sometimes they even seemed a little beyond the understanding of those who were participating - and I would learn so much. I didn't contribute but something in these threads would always start me thinking and I would then further research these subjects.
Father Basileos told me that I should pray and trust in the Lord. He said that I will be shown what is right for me. He said "have faith and believe in yourself and your beliefs. Don't try and make others believe as you do but don't allow them to force their opinions on you. Each person has his own path to follow. "
The above is the reason I would not change the freedom of my Orthodox faith for any other and it is the reason that I defend it.
The small number of wonderful e-mails I have received have shown me how much love there is here and I thank God for these people.
Posted 09 June 2007 - 08:00 PM
Thank you for your words, but if I was wise I should be in the desert now to repent for aaaaaaaaall my sins. Sweet, yes, I can be a bit, but I have my thorns, and fire also.
Yes, xeni means guests also because it is a given that if people are strangers (travelers) they are also guests. That is why the recurring theme of philoxenia (hospitality) in Orthodoxy for strangers (side by side with that of orphans and widows - it amazes me!). And yes, you are right maybe we should also keep in mind our obligations as guests here. There are rules of etiquette for being gracious hosts, but also for being gracious guests (always to the extent of one's means).
Pardon me, but why do you need the information? Don't even think about it!
Posted 11 June 2007 - 02:24 PM
I just noticed that the original question had not been answered, as the situation took a turn for the better (with the help of people like yourself). Nonetheless I would be interested to know what the answer is, as I have never been able to find it by browsing the site.
Posted 11 June 2007 - 10:12 PM
We do well to remember that the sins of posts past do not simply disappear. With things like Google Archives even no longer active fora can still be searched. If you have been an active poster in more than one forum for more than a couple of years, you might want to try googling on your nom de postes and see what ghosts of posts are still around to haunt you!
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users