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Why are there carnivores?


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#61 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 09:25 PM

One small question: don't Orthodox monks (or at least some of them) eat meat once a year, at Easter?


No, monastics do not eat meat.

Fish though is eaten very often especially on Sundays & Feast days.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#62 Father David Moser

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 11:42 PM

One small question: don't Orthodox monks (or at least some of them) eat meat once a year, at Easter?


No, not among monks that I know. I only knew one monastic who would eat meat and that was because of a medical condition (kidney failure) that mandated a change in diet.

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#63 Paul Cowan

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 03:47 AM

I hope this is not out of context.

I Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me,[c] but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me,[d] but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being.
25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience’ sake; 26 for “the earth is the LORD’s, and all its fullness.”[e]
27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience’ sake;[f] for “the earth is the LORD’s, and all its fullness.”[g] 29 “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man’s conscience? 30 But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks?
31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, 33 just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.



#64 Anthony

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 09:11 AM

Thank you for the clarification on monastics and meat eating. I don't know where I got that idea from.

#65 M.C. Steenberg

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 09:30 AM

I have also heard of the tradition of some monks eating meat (i.e. red-blooded) at certain times of the year - a practice I have never understood, and which certainly goes against the grain of standard monastic practice.

One exception to the usual fast from meat for the whole of a monastic's life that I have known, is at a small skete on the Holy Mountain, where the three fathers are iconographers, and thus raise a certain number of chickens to provide them with eggs for their painting. When these chickens grow very old, the fathers eat them.

INXC, Matthew

#66 John Craford

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 02:21 PM

Hello I'm new on ths forum. I wanted to ask if there are any Orthodox monks who don't eat neither meat nor fish (nothing that was or is living)? Thanks and sorry if I asked something wrong.

#67 John Craford

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 02:39 PM

Sorry if this is an inapropriate question but I know of a Gospel (not included in the Bible) that says that Jesus was a vegetarian and helped animals. Whats the view of the Church to this Gospel? Thanks.

#68 John Craford

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 05:14 PM

I'm not sure if this is the place for this post, but I found this site (maybe you know it):

http://www.orthodoxchristendom.com/

In the site I downloaded a text that says things against eating animals. My question is what do you think of that text?

#69 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 05:26 PM

Hello I'm new on ths forum. I wanted to ask if there are any Orthodox monks who don't eat neither meat nor fish (nothing that was or is living)? Thanks and sorry if I asked something wrong.


This usually involves monastics who have attained a very high spiritual state (of course they would never think of themselves that way) or else are pursuing a very strict ascetic life with a trustworthy spiritual father.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#70 John Craford

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 05:28 PM

This usually involves monastics who have attained a very high spiritual state (of course they would never think of themselves that way) or else are pursuing a very strict ascetic life with a trustworthy spiritual father.

In Christ- Fr Raphael


Thank you for the reply Father.

#71 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 05:32 PM

Sorry if this is an inapropriate question but I know of a Gospel (not included in the Bible) that says that Jesus was a vegetarian and helped animals. Whats the view of the Church to this Gospel? Thanks.


Of course there are the four canonical Gospels.

But as far as I know the only apocryphal Gospel which the Church accepts is the Protoevangelion (sometimes called the Gospel of St James). In this gospel are found many of the traditions about the Theotokos followed by the Church to this day.

All other Gospels, of which there are many from ancient times, either were not accepted as trustworthy & apostolic or else were firmly rejected as heretical.

I would wonder which gospel this account of Jesus as a vegetarian comes from. On the face of it it sounds like it could come from one of the gnostic gospels. But better to check this out first to be sure.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#72 Father David Moser

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 05:56 PM

I'm not sure if this is the place for this post, but I found this site (maybe you know it):

http://www.orthodoxchristendom.com/

In the site I downloaded a text that says things against eating animals. My question is what do you think of that text?


That text simply restates much that has already been advanced here as arguments for the voluntary adoption of a vegetarian lifestyle. The text on the website is simply the opinion of the author - a layman. Everything that I read on his site from any authoritative source about abstinence from eating meat was either in the context of fasting or of monastic life. The website author - Simon - has made a choice not to eat meat and takes those statements and applies them to his own life, something that is certainly ok for a person to do, however his personal choice is in no way applicable to the Church in a general fashion.

Fr David Moser

#73 Michael Stickles

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 06:39 PM

I would wonder which gospel this account of Jesus as a vegetarian comes from.


I've seen that associated with the Gospel of the Ebionites, since the few preserved fragments (quotes and commentary in the writings of Epiphanius) show Jesus attacking animal sacrifices and claiming he did not want to eat Passover-flesh with the disciples. It also removes locusts from John the Baptist's diet, making him vegetarian also.

The idea of Jesus being a vegetarian is more forcefully presented in the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, the Lost Years of Jesus, the Essene Gospel of Peace, the Gospel of the Holy Twelve, the Gospel of the Peace of Jesus Christ, the Humane Gospel of Christ, and the Gospel of the Essenes. The first two were either channeled or otherwise "received" psychically; I think that the manuscripts for the others are conveniently lost, meaning the antiquity claimed for them cannot be proved or disproved (I haven't fully researched that; however, I suspect relatively recent origins for them).

In Christ,
Mike

#74 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 07:25 PM

The idea of Jesus being a vegetarian is more forcefully presented in the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, the Lost Years of Jesus, the Essene Gospel of Peace, the Gospel of the Holy Twelve, the Gospel of the Peace of Jesus Christ, the Humane Gospel of Christ, and the Gospel of the Essenes. The first two were either channeled or otherwise "received" psychically; I think that the manuscripts for the others are conveniently lost, meaning the antiquity claimed for them cannot be proved or disproved (I haven't fully researched that; however, I suspect relatively recent origins for them).


Oh I met the authors themselves late one night back in the 1960s. :)

#75 John Craford

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 09:53 PM

I've seen that associated with the Gospel of the Ebionites, since the few preserved fragments (quotes and commentary in the writings of Epiphanius) show Jesus attacking animal sacrifices and claiming he did not want to eat Passover-flesh with the disciples. It also removes locusts from John the Baptist's diet, making him vegetarian also.

The idea of Jesus being a vegetarian is more forcefully presented in the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, the Lost Years of Jesus, the Essene Gospel of Peace, the Gospel of the Holy Twelve, the Gospel of the Peace of Jesus Christ, the Humane Gospel of Christ, and the Gospel of the Essenes. The first two were either channeled or otherwise "received" psychically; I think that the manuscripts for the others are conveniently lost, meaning the antiquity claimed for them cannot be proved or disproved (I haven't fully researched that; however, I suspect relatively recent origins for them).

In Christ,
Mike



Yeah I mentioned the Gospel of the Holy Twelve. There are some things if I can say "unusual" to me, but it's where it says to not eat meat.

#76 Eric Waltemate D.C., L.Ac

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 02:50 AM

Those who think that Our Lord didn't eat meat better realize that He was a Jew who followed the Jewish Law to perfection which meant that He at least ate lamb on Passover for about 31 years. He also ate fish after His resurrection.

#77 John Craford

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 01:04 PM

Forgive me that I am so boring with this, but what about this text:

http://www.orthodoxc...m.com/food.html

Is this to be practised by Orthodox Christians or it is something sectary (I don't say it is but I ask if it is, so forgive me)?

#78 Father David Moser

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 06:04 PM

Is this to be practised by Orthodox Christians or it is something sectary (I don't say it is but I ask if it is, so forgive me)?


This is a personal opinion of a layman which he has supported by selecting certain texts from scripture and other spiritual authorities. However, this is not the general rule of the Church. An Orthodox person may choose to adopt this way of life, but it is not in any way considered mandatory or preferred for all Orthodox Christians.

Fr David Moser

#79 John Craford

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 06:34 PM

A question:I wanna know for sure and once and for all is it a sin to never (!) ever eat anything that was or is living (animals, fish)? Is it a sin to be a vegetarian? Please answer me. Thanks.

#80 Father David Moser

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 06:47 PM

A question:I wanna know for sure and once and for all is it a sin to never (!) ever eat anything that was or is living (animals, fish)? Is it a sin to be a vegetarian? Please answer me. Thanks.


No there is no sin in being a vegetarian - neither is there any sin in not being a vegetarian. As we heard from St Paul today, "neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision" and we can rephrase that to say "neither vegetarianism availeth any thing, nor non-vegetarianism" There is no sin inherent in either practice.

Fr David Moser




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