Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

The nature of man


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#21 Theopesta

Theopesta

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 411 posts

Posted 06 June 2006 - 08:37 PM

understanding from chap 3 of the incarnation of the WORD, that the gift given to man is supernatural, then why we differ from the catholic in this point

#22 J. A. McIntyre

J. A. McIntyre

    Retired member, no longer active on forum

  • Guests
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts

Posted 08 June 2006 - 04:13 PM

Thank you for the reply and not taking offence to what I've written.

God bless.

#23 AndyHolland

AndyHolland

    Retired member, no longer active on forum

  • Guests
  • PipPip
  • 46 posts

Posted 09 June 2006 - 03:20 PM

I honestly believe these words sum up man: As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

A really wonderful way of actually seeing this passage come to life is to go to an Orthodox Church and watch as you pray (the Orthodox way with eyes open). When you compare what is going on to the Scripture, things start to make allot of sense - at least for me.

andy holland
"Christ Jesus came into the Universe to save sinners of whom I am chief"

#24 J. A. McIntyre

J. A. McIntyre

    Retired member, no longer active on forum

  • Guests
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts

Posted 14 June 2006 - 01:13 AM

I attended the Orthos and the Divine Liturgy for 2 years and loved it! My first memory of St. Nektarios, is walking thru the doors while incense burned a huge cloud over the altar, it looked like the Icon of Christ was floating up thru it. Very moving, very powerful. BUT! I'm not Greek and the Greeks weren't interested in a non-Greek attending... so after 2 years I stopped.

#25 AndyHolland

AndyHolland

    Retired member, no longer active on forum

  • Guests
  • PipPip
  • 46 posts

Posted 14 June 2006 - 02:00 PM

That is truly tragic and a real scandal. They should be ashamed of themselves if they did not welcome you.

The Antiochian church is very open to having people come in and the Liturgy is in English - has been since 1961. We also have western rite as well as eastern rite.

www.antiochian.org

I am truly sorry your experience was bad. The whole idea of Orthodox Liturgy is to experience the love of God, and if people do not love people they do see, how can they love God they do not see? Of course, there are many old country people who need to be loved too and they love to hear the Liturgy in their own language. I hope you can forgive them and understand where they are coming from. Xenophobia seems to plague the Greeks as does Paranoia the Russians - and rebelliousness the Americans and..... Every culture has its demons.

andy holland
sinner

#26 M.C. Steenberg

M.C. Steenberg

    Former Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,843 posts

Posted 14 June 2006 - 04:01 PM

A really wonderful way of actually seeing this passage come to life is to go to an Orthodox Church and watch as you pray (the Orthodox way with eyes open). When you compare what is going on to the Scripture, things start to make allot of sense - at least for me.


This practice -- of observing and engaging with what is taking place liturgically as certain scriptural and theological passages are read or sung in the church -- is extremely significant. One notable example of how it can be particularly revealing is in the practice of chanting the resurrectional canon at Matins on a Saturday vigil. There are nine odes to the canon (eight of which are normally sung; ode two is usually omitted), which deal with various scenes and 'moments' in the history of humanity, culminating in the ninth ode, to the Mother of God. But for all its scope of history, the canon includes no ode thematically dedicated to Christ personally. Yet in the Russian practice, the canon is sung while the Gospel book is brought to the centre of the church, and the faithful approach to venerate it -- so the various scenes and scenarios of history are sung, recounted, around the central act of venerating Christ, signified in the Gospel book, who is thus understood as the focal point of all these other stories. It is only in observing the liturgical movement taking place during the singing of the canon that its full theological significance is encountered.

On a theme more directly connected to this thread's focus of the nature of man, one has the psalms chanted on 'Lord, I have cried...' at vespers. These include Psalm 141 (140 LXX), which reads 'Let my prayer arise in Thy sight as incense [...] Incline not my heart too words of evil, to contrive excuses for sins with men that work iniquity; Psalm 142 (141 LXX), 'When my spirit is failing within me, yet Thou knowest my path ... I looked on my right hand and beheld, there was none that would know me ... Give ear to my prayer, for I am brought very low', etc. And while these penitential, supplicatory verses are being read, the priest emerges from the sanctuary and censes the people -- the very people crying out to God from and of their sinfulness, their weakness and frailty, are censed as icons of the holy, things precious and significant. Once again, the anthropological significance of the text is expounded by the liturgical actions in which it is delivered.

INXC, Matthew




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users