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Aliens and beings from other planets


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#1 John Craford

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 05:52 PM

I wonder whats the view of the Church about aliens. I would ask someone to tell me about this. Thanks.

#2 Michael Stickles

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 08:44 PM

I wonder whats the view of the Church about aliens. I would ask someone to tell me about this. Thanks.


Here are a few articles from an Orthodox perspective that you can read on this issue. I don't know if there is an official "view of the Church" on aliens, but everything I've read so far has had the same message as these articles.

http://www.orthodoxi...ien_abduct.aspx

http://www.ufoeviden...nts/doc1806.htm

http://www.paranetin...fromheaven.html

In Christ,
Mike

#3 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 09:10 PM

Here are a few articles from an Orthodox perspective that you can read on this issue. I don't know if there is an official "view of the Church" on aliens, but everything I've read so far has had the same message as these articles.

http://www.orthodoxi...ien_abduct.aspx

http://www.ufoeviden...nts/doc1806.htm

http://www.paranetin...fromheaven.html

In Christ,
Mike


I haven't time to check out the links which Mike provides above. But in its day Fr Seraphim Rose's Orthodoxy & the Religion of the Future was the book that dealt with this.

Basically Fr Seraphim felt that beside some of the hoaxes were real experiences but which came not from alien but from demonic encounters.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#4 Andrew

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 11:06 PM

It is interesting and disturbing that the UFOs oftentimes appear around certain nuclear missile sites in the US.

I don't want to seem like a crackpot, but the US Air Force, the Soviet military intelligence community, the Navy, and many other groups have studied this and have records of UFO sightings on file. You have to know the exact files, but with the Freedom of Information Act in the US you can obtain them. Major portions are blacked out though.

I think these are demonic manifestations. This age is very dark and we are nearing darker ones. Humanity has created weapons that can obliterate all life on Earth multiple times over, lives without recognition of God, and the majority of people within the Church nowadays cannot even keep the commandments. But Christ is risen, and has conquered death, and is saving us. And we have a host of the holy ones who intercede for us, and there are still holy men living today who uphold the world in prayer.

#5 Karen Hammer

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 12:00 AM

I noticed the History Channel has given UFOs a lot of coverage, in addition to giving too much coverage to the da Vinci code stuff and other pop culture phenomenon of little worth. Did they run out of bona fide historical subjects to feature that they have to run this stuff? But they're only pandering to an audience that genuinely craves the pseudo-scientific.

It's like some people want to meet alien creatures. Maybe it's the only out-of-this-world experience they can imagine and they're hoping it'll be benevolent, not the War of the Worlds. Did sci-fi movies/TV shows set people up to expect a relationship with aliens? I think so, because now it's not a fantastic idea but a rather common one, an expectation of sorts that almost parallels our belief in the 2nd Coming. I think Star Trek, "2001, a Space Odessey" and "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" set the stage for the New Age hopes for friendly and/or metaphysical meetings with out-of-this-world beings, currently called "alien".

As for as these sightings occuring around secret military sites, it's more likely that the UFO sightings are a cover for experimental aircraft and the like. Better to look at what trends the TV and the cinema are trying to peddle to know what coming down the pike. Some manipulation going on by someone, I think.

Stay tuned.

#6 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 12:25 AM

I'll withhold judgement on aliens until I meet one. Ask me then.

Herman

#7 Andrew

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 01:11 AM


As for as these sightings occuring around secret military sites, it's more likely that the UFO sightings are a cover for experimental aircraft and the like. Better to look at what trends the TV and the cinema are trying to peddle to know what coming down the pike. Some manipulation going on by someone, I think.

Stay tuned.


The sightings aren't just at secret military sites... I was trying to point out that these nuclear weapons are demonic, and I find it interesting that in several reported sightings of UFO's they "watched" what was going on with the day to day affairs of the nuclear sites. I think they exerted a negative influence on the whole thing... the same can be said for images of Hiroshima. You look at what the US Government enacted, and you see anti-Christ.

#8 Karen Hammer

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 03:30 AM

Please, let's not go down the "Amerika, the Great Satan" road. Who else has the Bomb in this world? Plenty of countries shamelessly raced to get it and stockpiled them. Who really started the work towards inventing it?? Wasn't the US.

But now that Pandora's box was opened, there's no way that it'll ever be closed again.

For that matter, one can wonder if there were "alien" (a.k.a demons) seen above concentration camps during WWII. Never heard of any sightings there.

But back to naming the "alien" issue, maybe they're demons, maybe they're delusions or illusions. Whatever the case, the important thing is not to get abducted by one or possessed as the case may be.

If that happens, there's help. Alien abduction support groups are available (they started up about 10 years ago, as I recall). Now there's a sign of the times. Wonder what folks a hundred years from now will think of us.

#9 Paul Cowan

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 03:44 AM

I've been to Roswell, New Mexico. Except for alot of sheep, and tourist traps, there ain't much there. You blink, you miss it. Two stop lights, a big flag pole, and a run down gas station.

PC

I suppose the flag pole could be an underground satellite station antenna. And all the sheep were mooo'ing. So maybe there is something going on there after all.

#10 Anthony

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 11:22 AM

When I went to Greece I got a document entitling "the alien, Anthony *****" to residence for a year.

Does that count?

#11 Michael Stickles

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 12:51 PM

I haven't time to check out the links which Mike provides above. But in its day Fr Seraphim Rose's Orthodoxy & the Religion of the Future was the book that dealt with this.

Basically Fr Seraphim felt that beside some of the hoaxes were real experiences but which came not from alien but from demonic encounters.

In Christ- Fr Raphael


All three articles I linked had that same viewpoint. One of them (I think the third) included a lengthy excerpt from Fr. Seraphim's book.

In Christ,
Mike

#12 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 01:02 PM

I don't see how there can be aliens at all. If there were, they'd be in a fallen state and need redemption but Christ was crucified and arose from the dead once only, on earth.

#13 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 02:16 PM

I don't see how there can be aliens at all. If there were, they'd be in a fallen state and need redemption but Christ was crucified and arose from the dead once only, on earth.


Yes, I agree that credibility ( or rather incredibility) is more the issue here. ie how can anyone speak as if such things were reality even on a scientific or secular basis?

Such incredibility though is one of the issues Fr Seraphim most based his ideas about these 'beings' on. He felt that the peculiar gullibility of our age was due to an undiscerning openness and craving for spiritual 'experiences' etc. This combined with the 'rational' spirit of the age ( the 'beings' all come as representatives of a highly advanced technological and hyper-gnostic culture) make us particularly vulnerable to such 'extraordinary' experiences.

Even then I myself didn't think any of this was serious until I saw a number of programs about people who had undergone such experiences. What was striking was how uniform the descriptions were of how especially nasty and cruel such 'beings' were.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#14 Owen Jones

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 03:17 PM

The first book claiming that aliens from other planets had "seeded" the earth was written in the 16th century, which is when the idea of atheism first began to find cultural acceptance. The point is that we have to come from somewhere, and if you eliminate God from the picture, you have to create aliens from outer space to explain why we are here. Of course, that begs the question of where they come from?????

The widespread acceptance of intelligent alien life forms is right up there with the broad acceptance of astrology. We live in a very superstitious age.

#15 Robert Hegwood

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 03:57 PM

This is an area of no little interest to me. In my life I've seen 11 UFO's two of which I observed being chased by jets out of Patrick Air Force Base. But that was all long ago. And though I've been in the Orthodox Church many years now I've yet to encounter what strikes me as a good answer.

When it comes to abduction experiences I'm inclined to agree with Fr. Seraphim. I recall once trying to get abducted as a teenager. The UFO that I was trying to wave down one night over the open pasture where I was camping turned out to be a brightly lit low flying cargo plane whose engines I couldn't hear right away because of wind direction. Needless to say I was disappointed....a couple of years latter I became a Charismatic...which given Fr. Seraphim's insights is not such a far fetched connection. Hopefully I've learned better since then.

Still when I consider the emensity of the universe and its billions of galaxies...that's a whole lot of empty real estate for there just to be us in all of it. Now I could believe that we are the only sentient material beings out there, but that life of some lesser sort exists in the great out black. And perhaps it is the native hue of my 20th century American upbringing and its ideation of manifest destiny that inclines me to think that at some point we should be out there visiting, colonizing, being fruitful and multipling anywhere it makes sense to do so. But that said I'm in no hurry to witness the ecclesial mahem that will undoubtedly ensue with regard to the establishment of a canonical liturgical calendar for Mars. It will either have to be expanded to fill the natural cycle of the native year or two traditional cycles will have to be cojoined in some inelegant overlay of the natural year. Either way doubtless one faction will declare the other to be without grace and vis versa.

On a more serious note (just barely) I do seem to recall reading how one more recent saint said that there was indeed other life out there, just that it was not of a sort we would easily recognize as life. I can buy that too....though I still want us to go visit it, live with it and maybe bring some home as pets...or open a diplomatic mission...whichever is more appropriate.

The big question is not are UFO's alien visitors, but is there other life like what know as life out in the universe, sentient or not. There is something in us that recoils from the idea that in all that vastness we are the only mote of biological life that exists. And thus we want very badly for it to be filled if not in fact then at least in our imaginations. Maybe before the fall we were meant to seed the life here out there. Maybe after the Judgement and the restoration of all things that opportunity will arise again. But right now, we just don't know definatively one way or the other and it is an itch that we are unable to scratch.

The question gets more complicated if we ask about the existance of other sentient life for we have to ask what their sentience means in relation to our own, as well as how our fall affected them theologically. Are they necessarily holy and unfallen, or fallen also in some way because of us. And if they are sentient and fallen then how does the soteriology of the Church apply to them? If they are sentient, are fallen, and can be saved, can be joined to the Church then at some juncture we will have to send missionaries...someone tell Vladimir P. we need that skete set up on Mars pronto. Of course if they are not fallen then C. S. Lewis's specualtion seems more apt...that earth is quarrantined for the duration of the fall.

In truth I don't know what to think. I just know I would like for there to be life out there, even sentient life advanced technologically or not. And short of that...or in conjunction with that I want us to go out there and stake out some new dirt, spread earth's life there in places where there is none. But that is just what I would like to think or would like to see happen. The bottom line is though we don't know and God doesn't seem to be overly concerned in giving us quick definative answers on that point. Perhaps the best answer to the question of life out there is just "maybe" and should it please God one day He will let us know one way or the other if it is good for the salvation of our souls.

#16 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 05:50 PM

There is a basic fallacy in the notion that because the universe is so big, there must be life out there somewhere. The fallacy is to confuse scale and complexity. In scale, earth is tiny. But life on earth is incredibly more complex than any amount of gas, ice and rock, etc. The life on earth is unique and the centre of God's creation because of its complexity, and the universe needs to be the size it is to sustain the earth, the solar system, etc.

#17 Father Serafim

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 07:14 PM

St Nicodemos tells us that Man is a macro-cosmos compared to the universe. We are greater than the stars, nebulae etc. As for aliens - are these not a part of the great deception? And there shall be signs and wonders to delude the non-believers.

I agree with Fr Seraphim Rose that aliens are demons.

#18 Kornelius

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 07:32 PM

I wonder whats the view of the Church about aliens. I would ask someone to tell me about this. Thanks.


Taking the information from both Fr. Raphael Vereshack and Mike Stickles is a good place to start. At least two of the articles, as Mike correctly points out, are partially or wholly based from the book of Fr. Seraphim Rose, Orthodoxy and the Reilgion of the Future, a book worth reading for other New Age related themes.

Fr. Seraphim, gives a patristic understanding of these demonic entities, whose appearances are not limited to our modern era. They are fallen beings and as such - despite the fact that they are spiritual beings - they have a constant proclivity toward materiality. They can take any deceiving shape or form, even the ones of angels, saints, Panagia and Christ. It is done through the deception and manipulation of our senses, to doom us spiritually.

Geronda Paisios who was often visited by St. Ephimia, before even addressing her, he would take her in front of the icon of the Holy Trinity and tell her to prostrate herself. Since Satan would never do such a thing, he was sure, after the prostrations that she was indeed St. Ephimia.

Another fact regarding UFO's (Unidentified Flying Objects), not alien beings, stems not from the spiritual milieu, but rather from the technological and scientific realm. It is documented that such technology was created by Nicola Tesla, the forgotten genius, at the beginning of the 20th century. A flying entity that had solved the gravitational issue; hence, the erratic movement of the flying saucer.

Also at MIT, a group of scientist are currently contemplating the possibility of creating a pushing force rather than pulling force between molecules and atoms, hoping to use such technology for hovering automobiles.

Remember, however, that whether flying saucers are derivative of human technology or not, that does not mean that seeing one implies that they are made on earth per se. Satan may create, as I mentioned previously, any illusion he wants, including flying saucers.

#19 Nina

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 02:49 AM

I know nothing about this issue, but when aliens are on TV, or movies they appear so loathsome, nauseating and repulsive, that I detest those images. We know to whom such epithets are ascribed in the lives/works of the Fathers. Extraterrestrials - as we know them from the media - can not be the work of our God. Our Christ is beauty, harmony, symmetry etc.

#20 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 30 August 2007 - 04:40 PM

There is a basic fallacy in the notion that because the universe is so big, there must be life out there somewhere. The fallacy is to confuse scale and complexity. In scale, earth is tiny. But life on earth is incredibly more complex than any amount of gas, ice and rock, etc. The life on earth is unique and the centre of God's creation because of its complexity, and the universe needs to be the size it is to sustain the earth, the solar system, etc.


Andrew, I don't know whether "aliens" or alien forms of life have visited or are visiting our earth but logically, there has to be life on other planets. Maybe not the life we know, but life. There are millions of millions of planets out there, it is impossibile to believe and against all odds that no forms of life exist on any of them.

Effie




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