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Aliens and beings from other planets


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#81 Marie+Duquette

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 05:11 PM

There seems to be some mistake here (?). A post which the computer says is from Seda, signed by Fr Raphael. Gremlins?


Anthony,

Who are the gremlins?

As I read this thread, I noticed that Seda's post#75 was edited by Father Raphael. So, did he sign it by mistake, or intentionally? Since there was no signature on the original?

Who knows?

marie+duquette

p.s.

Let us be attentive!

Double negatives make a positive, don't they?

#82 Anthony

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 05:37 PM

Edited because now redundant

Edited by Anthony, 30 January 2008 - 06:02 PM.


#83 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 05:38 PM

Once a scientist from USA, Knel Turian (he lives in Armenia now) spoke by the radio about this topic. He was one of those scientists who once gathered all information about those UFOs and examined this phenomenon. If I'm not mistaken, he said, the book where all those things are gathered is called 'Blue book'. So this scientist said that that examination had shown that all those UFOs and aliens, though being physical or material (since they sometimes leave material marks after themselves, like burnt areas etc), were all the same from some spiritual space (he explained how it could happen and that the spiritual can take material forms). So he was sure that they were really the work of demons, especially because those phenomena usually bring the feeling of terror and fear to people.


From what I know Fr Seraphim Rose was the first Orthodox writer in English to come to the same conclusion about aliens. What he felt was that a fair amount of them were delusional or the result of misinterpreting the evidence. He also though felt that some experiences were genuine but originated from demonic spiritual sources. His basic idea was that through our lack of discernment & idle craving for supernatural experiences (something which he always related to passionate craving) we open ourselves to such false encounters. In his mind this was similar to the falls into spiritual delusion experienced in the past by those who had actively sought spiritual experiences.

The subject of UFOs & aliens isn't one which personally interests me very much. Anyway such things go in cycles and usually reflect a fad- so such 'sightings' were much more prevalent 20 years ago or so. Once though I saw a TV program on people who had experienced such encounters. This basically pointed to the correctness of Fr Seraphim's views. Some people seemed genuinely to have experienced something authentic. What was striking though was that these experiences were uniformly described as being malevolent. Absolutely none were of the ET or Close Encounters type of benign encounters.

In Christ- Fr Raphael
PS: From what I was just told in a PM in my last post I hit the Edit instead of the Reply button. Thus the confusion. Sorry- this had never happened before. I'll have to pay more attention next time.

#84 Father David Moser

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 06:11 PM

PS: From what I was just told in a PM in my last post I hit the Edit instead of the Reply button. Thus the confusion. Sorry- this had never happened before. I'll have to pay more attention next time.


Please also note that Seda's original post has been restored in full so some of you who did not see it in its entirety may wish to go back and re-read it.

Fr David Moser

#85 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 07:07 PM

Such strange goings-on, must be the aliens! Or demons? How about leprecauns?

#86 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 07:16 PM

How about leprecauns?


Now don't be mocking the little folk!

#87 K. Sean Proudler

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 10:22 PM

I wonder whats the view of the Church about aliens. I would ask someone to tell me about this. Thanks.

Satan is always at work doing his best the bury truths such that he may continue to deceive. Thus he pushes a portion of people into having interests in such things as little green Aliens, and does so with deliberate reason.

These people are open minded, which can be a good thing. There are also people who are open minded but are specifically in search of truths, and so much so that the function of how to find truths becomes priority number one. Unfortunately, thanks to Satan being at work, those who are in search of truths become instantly thrown into the same category as those whom are interested in Aliens.

All this occurs because truth seekers are open minded, even though they chose to be this way simply to allow truth to enter the mind. Thus if the minds of those who are in search of truths do discover any new truths, their words are then assumed to come from La La land, and that's that, end of story.

Satan wins again. Truths are buried. From this I assume that the church does not favor any concern about aliens. But then again, I could be wrong, since Satan has not been defeated yet.

#88 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 11:28 PM

From this I assume that the church does not favor any concern about aliens. But then again, I could be wrong, since Satan has not been defeated yet.


Actually, he has been defeated. Christ did that, didn't you get the memo? It is all in that book we have been going on about, some people refer to it as "The Bible".

#89 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 09:45 AM

Leprechauns, elves, gnomes, goblins .... why is it that every country has it's own version of these mischievous little folk?

Could they have originated as little devils and then been changed through the years according to the different countries that have myths about them.

These little folk are called Kalikantzari in Greece.

"On Christmas Eve the "Kalikantzari" arrive. These are small and large gnome-like creatures who are said to come to earth for twelve nights and roam about doing all sorts of mischief... it is said that they are ugly and mischievous because the devil or evil spirit was not exorcised from them. These little fellows rove over the waters and settle in the glens near the rivers, roaming around the villages after midnight, teasing weary travellers and scaring the womenfolk, stealing food, and playing all sorts of harmless jokes. They also dirty the water supply and babies' clothes, which must not hang on the line after sun-down. Therefore, before they arrive the women go and cut olive branches from church property and with these, dipped in holy water, they sprinkle their homes and doors and then cover their water supply and jugs with them as a protection against the pranks of the "Kalikantzari". Should you meet one, you can scare it off by making the sign of the Cross three times, by showing it a red thread.

The "Kalikantzari" stay until the Eve of Epiphany Day..... all the houses are sprinkled from room to room with holy water by the priests, to clean them of any evil spirits....
....and so they leave this earth until the coming year"

Reading the above it is amazing that some practices here are still common. e.g. I was told never to leave laundry on the line during the night, and threads of red and white are entwined by mothers and worn by little children on their wrists every spring. Could these two practices be because of the above?

#90 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 09:47 AM

Another version of the above :

"Kalikántzari Superstition
An old folk belief in Greece holds that mischievous goblins called kalikántzari appear during Dodecameron. The kalikantzari live beneath the surface of the earth and chop away at a large tree trunk, the foundation of the earth. With their chopping they attempt to destroy God's work. They almost succeed when they hear the noise created by the birth of Christ. They come to earth on December 25 to disrupt people's lives with pranks and tricks such as spilled milk, disappearing keys, and broken glass. It is common to blame mishaps this time of the year on the kalikántzari.

Fire, light, and holy water protect people from the kalikantzari.
On Christmas Eve some people in rural Greece light a fire to prevent them from coming down the chimney. This Christ log (skarkántzalos) burns until Epiphany. Sometimes large bonfires are built in the villages of Greece, and people carry a candle with them at night for protection. The little imps roam the earth until Epiphany when holy water cleans them away."

#91 Seda S.

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 10:36 AM

FORGIVE ME,

FR RAPHAEL.


I have cleared away what I had written in the previous two posts. Forgive me again.

#92 Seda S.

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 10:44 AM

(Deleted.
It was nonsense.)

Edited by Seda S., 31 January 2008 - 12:14 PM.


#93 K. Sean Proudler

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 11:17 PM


Actually, he has been defeated. Christ did that, didn't you get the memo? It is all in that book we have been going on about, some people refer to it as "The Bible".


I just got kicked in the butt for responding to this quote, which brings about a question.

How is " Aliens and beings from other planets " orientated around discussion of patristic / monastic teaching ?

I desperately need to know.

#94 Robert Hegwood

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 10:26 PM

A "bulk" reply comment or two.

First, I must risk seeming being taken as a little to the odd side. This is because in my life I've seen 11 UFOs. In retrospect it is possible that at least a couple of them may have been mistaking other conventional aircraft. One might be a weird but very suspiciously timed rare atmospheric event...a couple I've forgotten the particulars and have only the memory of counting how many I've seen back when I did remember, but at least 4 are in the "hmmmmm...makes you think" category. The first two I saw was when was 7 or 8 years old at my babysitter's. They pointed out to me something happening in the sky...two objects high overhead (tracking roughly due n) being chased by two fighter jets from Patrick Air Force Base. The jets never had a chance. The UFOs toyed with them a little one heading ne and the other sw (more or less). First the one heading sw bolted away leaving its pursueor to trudge along behind it. And the other played a little more with its jet before dashing off in the other direction the same way. We could still clearly see both jets trying to give chase but the UFO's had each disappeared over their respective horizons. It all took less than a couple of minutes.

What they were or were not I'm in no position to say, I can only tell what I saw and that it seemed our guys were not happy to see them in our skies.

With regard to the little guys chopping at the roots of a giant tree trunk...that sounds very much like a variation on the Norse story of the World-Tree whose whose roots are gnawed by the evil dragon-being the Niddhog.

With regard to elves and the wee folk in general I once came across an old (I think german) story of a priest's son (so it must be old) who in his daily wanderings saw an elf sitting on the waters of a stream singing some little ditty. The priest's son reduced the poor elf to tears by telling him he was not and could not be baptized and go to heaven. When he told his father the priest was upset with his son and scolded him about judging God's creatures and destroying their hope for his own amusement...or something like that.

#95 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 08:36 AM

" Of course, if you read Bishop Ignatius Brianchaninov, you will know about all the deceptions which the demons perpetrate: the demons "pray" for you, the demons make miracles, they produce the most wonderful phenomena, they bring people to church, they do anything you want, as long as they keep you in this deception. And when the time comes, they will suddenly pull their tricks on you. So these people, who have been converted to some kind of Christianity by these so-called outer-space beings, are waiting for the next time they will come; and the next time their message may have to do with Christ coming to earth again soon, or something of the sort. It's obvious that this is all the work of demons. That is, where it's real. Sometimes it's just imagination, but when it's real this kind of thing obviously comes form demons.

This is very elementary. If you read any text of the early Fathers, any of the early Lives of Saints or the Lausiac History, you find many cases where beings suddenly appear. Nowadays they appear in spaceships because that's how the demons have adapted themselves to the people of the times; but if you understand how spiritual deception works and what kind of wiles the devil has, then you have no problems in understanding what's going on with these flying saucers. And yet this person who writes the UFO column is an absolutely strict Fundamentalist Christian. He is looking, actually for new revelations to come from beings from outer space. "

From http://www.sfaturior...advices_ufo.htm

Edited by M.C. Steenberg, 04 February 2008 - 10:17 AM.
Added blank line between paragraphs


#96 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 12:49 PM

There are no aliens.

#97 Michael Stickles

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 07:42 PM

How is " Aliens and beings from other planets " orientated around discussion of patristic / monastic teaching ?

I desperately need to know.


Remember that the Terms of Use do not limit us to only discussing patristic / monastic teachings. Rather:

Issues addressed in the Community should be focused on examining a given theme from the broad realm of patristic, monastic, ecclesiastic and liturgical perspectives, and not simply on expressing one’s own opinions or commenting on another’s.


Some of the ways in which this has been done in this thread are:

(1) Discussing Fr Seraphim Rose's equating of aliens to demons, and how that relates to other views (patristic or otherwise) and to people's experiences;
(2) Considering the compatibility (or lack thereof) of Orthodox theology and belief in aliens;
(3) Pondering a proper Orthodox response were one to be confronted with an apparently alien being.

That's just off the top of my head; there may have been others. Yes, at times this focus seems to get lost, but someone eventually drags the discussion back to a proper focus (example: Effie's recent post).

In Christ,
Mike

#98 Nicolaj

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 10:00 PM

I have seen a lot of weird things in my life, but no such thing called alien.

But I like the things Father Seraphim wrote on the topic.

In Christ, Nicolaj

#99 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 11:21 PM

There are no aliens.

#100 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 01:49 PM

There are no aliens.


yes, you have made this quite clear, repeatedly. I am glad this is settled for you. It is not so for everyone and I don't see how this dogmatic repetition contributes anything meaningful at this point.




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