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Sun, moon and stars - calculating time


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#21 Paul Cowan

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 04:05 PM

I am happy you were able to resolve this for yourself. Although astrology does have its beginnings in antiquity, it does not have a strong following amoung believers today. I have heard even reading our horoscopes in the Sunday paper should be avoided.

I happen to be a Libra and based on this website, I am fit to my name even down to my favorite color. Spooky actually.

Traditional
Libra Traits


Diplomaitic and urbane
Romantic and charming
Easygoing and sociable
Idealistic and peaceable


On the dark side....

Indecisive and changeable
Gullible and easily infuenced
Flirtatious and self-indulgent




These above are all me.

Librans too are among the most civilized of the twelve zodiacal characters and are often good looking. They have elegance, charm and good taste, are naturally kind, very gentle, and lovers of beauty, harmony (both in music and social living) and the pleasures that these bring.

They have good critical faculty and are able to stand back and look impartially at matters which call for an impartial judgment to be made on them. But they do not tolerate argument from anyone who challenges their opinions, for once they have reached a conclusion, its truth seems to them self-evident; and among their faults is an impatience of criticism and a greed for approval. But their characters are on the whole balanced, diplomatic and even tempered.

Librans are sensitive to the needs of others and have the gift, sometimes to an almost psychic extent, of understanding the emotional needs of their companions and meeting them with their own innate optimism - they are the kind of people of whom it is said, "They always make you feel better for having been with them." They are very social human beings. They loathe cruelty, viciousness and vulgarity and detest conflict between people, so they do their best to cooperate and compromise with everyone around them, and their ideal for their own circle and for society as a whole is unity.

Their cast of mind is artistic rather than intellectual, though they are usually too moderate and well balanced to be avant garde in any artistic endeavor. They have good perception and observation and their critical ability, with which they are able to view their own efforts as well as those of others, gives their work integrity.

In their personal relationships they show understanding of the other person's point of view, trying to resolve any differences by compromise, and are often willing to allow claims against themselves to be settled to their own disadvantage rather than spoil a relationship. They like the opposite sex to the extent of promiscuity sometimes, and may indulge in romanticism bordering on sentimentality.

Their marriages, however, stand a good chance of success because they are frequently the union of "true minds". The Libran's continuing kindness toward his or her partner mollifies any hurt the latter may feel if the two have had a tiff. Nor can the Libran's spouse often complain that he or she is not understood, for the Libran is usually the most empathetic of all the zodiacal types and the most ready to tolerate the beloved's failings.

The negative Libran character may show frivolity, flirtatiousness and shallowness. It can be changeable and indecisive, impatient of routine, colorlessly conventional and timid, easygoing to the point of inertia, seldom angry when circumstances demand a show of annoyance at least; and yet Librans can shock everyone around them with sudden storms of rage. Their love of pleasure may lead them into extravagance; Libran men can degenerate into reckless gamblers, and Libran women extravagant, jealous and careless about money sometimes squander their wealth and talents in their overenthusiasm for causes which they espouse. Both sexes can become great gossipers. A characteristic of the type is an insatiable curiosity that tempts them to enquire into every social scandal in their circle.

In their work the description "lazy Libra" which is sometimes given is actually more alliterative than true. Librans can be surprisingly energetic, though it is true that they dislike coarse, dirty work. Although some are modestly content, others are extremely ambitious. With their dislike of extremes they make good diplomats but perhaps poor party politicians, for they are moderate in their opinions and able to see other points of view. They can succeed as administrators, lawyers (they have a strong sense of justice, which cynics might say could handicap them in a legal career), antique dealers, civil servants and bankers, for they are trustworthy in handling other people's money. Some Librans are gifted in fashion designing or in devising new cosmetics; others may find success as artists, composers, critics, writers, interior decorators, welfare workers or valuers, and they have an ability in the management of all sorts of public entertainment. Some work philanthropically for humanity with great self-disciple and significant results. Libran financiers sometimes make good speculators, for they have the optimism and ability to recover from financial crashes.


Did I mention today was my birthday? 41 And according to the bold above, I am good looking too. ;0)

Paul

#22 Nina

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 04:46 PM

I happen to be a Libra and based on this website, I am fit to my name even down to my favorite color. Spooky actually.
Paul


If you say it is spooky, I will not object. Please find me Leo there 'cause I got lost with all the info.

#23 Paul Cowan

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 05:01 PM

Leo the Lion. That explains alot ;p The first two paragraphs that is.

Paul

#24 Nina

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 05:57 PM

Leo the Lion. That explains alot ;p The first two paragraphs that is.

Paul


:) Ok, who said that it is for me? :P
Mary can testify that my fav color is red and not gold.

Now, seriously, thank you dear Paul for finding this for me. I do not beleive in these, but I wanted to see if it is infallible. Sorry, but it is not. :P

#25 Father David Moser

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 06:39 PM

I am happy you were able to resolve this for yourself. Although astrology does have its beginnings in antiquity, it does not have a strong following amoung believers today. I have heard even reading our horoscopes in the Sunday paper should be avoided.


Astrology finds its error in the presumption that the heavens are personally applicable. Scripture tells us that the heavens "declare the glory of God" thus they not only inspire awe and show an icon of God's infinite greatness, they also reveal divine actions (such as the incarnation). We men, who have the basic flaw of thinking that we are the equal of God, have tried to make the heavens declare our own glory in astrology. Thus astrology is only a continuation of our sin of seeking to take God's place and so even as a "toy" (ie the newspaper horoscopes) it is a dangerous toy.

As for the "accurate" personality descriptions of those born under certain astrological signs, if we were to replace the names of all those constellations (Leo, Saggitarius, Taurus, Gemini, Cappricorn, etc) with the designators of a psychological personality profile (lets say the Meyer's Briggs identifiers, E/I, N/S, T/F, P/J in their various combinations) then we would find that we are just as much an ESFJ as we might be a Leo (this is a basically random pairing so don't attach any significance to it - it's only an example). We all have an infinite multitude of personality traits and so will most likely recognize ourselves in one or more category of any descriptive attempt. There is very little of significance here and certainly nothing that "validates" astrology and horoscopes.

Fr David Moser

#26 Nina

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 07:38 PM

We all have an infinite multitude of personality traits and so will most likely recognize ourselves in one or more category of any descriptive attempt.

Fr David Moser


I do recognize myself only in the good traits. :)

#27 Paul

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 09:36 PM

I am happy you were able to resolve this for yourself. Although astrology does have its beginnings in antiquity, it does not have a strong following amoung believers today. I have heard even reading our horoscopes in the Sunday paper should be avoided.

I happen to be a Libra and based on this website, I am fit to my name even down to my favorite color. Spooky actually.



These above are all me.



Did I mention today was my birthday? 41 And according to the bold above, I am good looking too. ;0)

Paul


Happy Birthday.

I'm not interested in the horoscope side.

But the clusters of stars that are viewable to us.

They seem to be observed with this sort of horoscope side.

But what of them as part of a calendar?

Genesis 1:14 And God said: Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:

I'd be very interested about them being used in this way.

What do the Church fathers say of this?

Is it no longer important as we have calendars.

I'd like to beable to look up at God's creation, and observe time in this way as He created, even if only part of religious festivals.
I think it would be nice for birthdays also.

How to do this, I don't know.

#28 Paul Cowan

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 12:21 AM

Paul,

I can't contribute more to your question. I keep thinking you might be asking about a naval sextant or similar tools man has used throughout time to "work" the stars.

Paul

#29 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 09:35 AM

Well, I have to confess I sneaked a look at Taurus against my better judgement, and what is said is a close fit. But I must reject astrology out of hand since I share my birthday with Oliver Cromwell and Karl Marx! Seriously though, I'm sure we all know that we must not take any interest in such things.

#30 Paul Cowan

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 06:46 PM

I apologize to you Andreas and others for leading you to possible sin. I take it upon myself as a sin is also the result of causing others to. If I caused any one to stumble, PLEASE forgive me. I accept the responsibility with a sad heart.

Paul

#31 Nina

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 09:45 PM

I apologize to you Andreas and others for leading you to possible sin. I take it upon myself as a sin is also the result of causing others to. If I caused any one to stumble, PLEASE forgive me. I accept the responsibility with a sad heart.

Paul


Paul, what are you saying??!! You did not lead anyone to possible sin. Andreas is just making a point like you, Father David, and our other friend Paul, that as Fathers say Horoscope and Astrology is a sin and we should confess about it. So do not be sad, please! Also today is Sunday, remember that we are only to be happy and rejoice on Sunday. :)

P.S Andreas. Karl Marx hmm? Maybe you were born to sanctify that day. :)

#32 Mary

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 10:46 PM

Did I mention today was my birthday? 41 And according to the bold above, I am good looking too. ;0)

Paul


LOL =) Happy belated Birthday, Good Looking Paul! =)

I looked up Taurus, I only have the dark side. They didn't even get my favorite color right!

On the dark side....

Jealous and possessive
Resentful and inflexible
Self-indulgent and greedy


Porcupine

#33 Mary

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 12:36 AM

:) Ok, who said that it is for me? :P
Mary can testify that my fav color is red and not gold.

Now, seriously, thank you dear Paul for finding this for me. I do not beleive in these, but I wanted to see if it is infallible. Sorry, but it is not. :P


Indeed your favorite color is red - did you notice the 'startstone' for the Leo is "the rich RED ruby"?! ;)

#34 Nina

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 06:24 PM

Indeed your favorite color is red - did you notice the 'startstone' for the Leo is "the rich RED ruby"?! ;)


Touché!

NOOOT! :P

#35 Anthony

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 06:49 PM

Dear Paul and anybody else interested - there is a good explanation of how the sun, moon and stars relate to our calendar and measurement of time here (it is part of a bigger astronomy tutorial that I have often found useful).

Another section says a bit about astrology, and why we shouldn't worry about it. For those who prefer not to follow links, this is a sample:

Many people read their horoscope in the newspaper not to get a prediction of what will happen to them, but, rather, to get advice on what they should do in the day (in the United States the horoscope columns focus on who to date and how best to gain money). A person who is serious about using astrology to guide their actions should consult several horoscope columns every day to be sure they have the most accurate information. Unfortunately, that person would find out that the horoscopes for him/her are not consistent with one another even though the horoscopes are phrased as vaguely as they are. Astrology is not as systematic as it claims to be.

Many tests comparing the birthdates of national or state leaders have found the birthdates to be randomly distributed among the twelve signs. If astrology could determine a person's future or his/her personality, then the leaders should have birthdates in one or two signs. Other tests on the birthdates of those who re-enlist in the Marines have also found a completely random distribution of birthdates among all of the signs. A recent episode of NOVA (on PBS) showed a researcher testing astrology by giving each person in a college class of astrology believers their own individual authentic horoscope. Not surprisingly, they found some event in their day that fitted their horoscope. The students then gave their horoscope to the person sitting behind them. To their surprise or dismay, the students discovered the substituted horoscopes were just as good! (Yes, the students had birthdays spread throughout the year.) There are numerous cases of twins or triplets having different personalities and life events even though their birth times and places were very close to one another.

Usually, those who seek out astrologers just want some guidance of any kind. If they feel the horoscope interpretation was prepared just for them, then they will find agreement with reality. To test this, Michel Gaugelin (a French researcher) sent a horoscope of a mass murderer to 150 people but told each one that the horoscope was prepared just for him or her. Over ninety percent of them said they could see themselves in that horoscope. If a person is already convinced ahead of time of the validity of something like a horoscope or a psychic's prediction, then he or she will be easily able to use his or her natural problem-solving capabilities and creativity to make sense of the vague, even contradictory statements. The Australian researcher Geoffrey Dean substituted phrases in the horoscopes of 22 people that were opposite of the original phrases in the horoscopes. Ninety-five percent of time they said the horoscope readings applied to them just as well as to the people to whom the original phrases were given. An astrologer relies on her client's ability to create meaning in even random data and to fill in the gaps of incomplete information if some context is given (or if the creative client makes up a context himself). The astrologer's predictions will always be ``correct'', not testable as a scientific theory or prediction must be.



Anthony

#36 Mary

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 12:28 AM

Touché!

NOOOT! :P


Have you hacked into the moderator's controls? I thought Fr Matthew removed all the colors!

#37 Paul

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 08:29 AM

Dear Paul and anybody else interested - there is a good explanation of how the sun, moon and stars relate to our calendar and measurement of time here (it is part of a bigger astronomy tutorial that I have often found useful).

Anthony


Thanks for the link Anthony.

I've had a quick look through it.
I think it may come in very useful

Thanks.
Paul

#38 Nina

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 07:38 PM

Have you hacked into the moderator's controls? I thought Fr Matthew removed all the colors!


:) No, I have not. But I have discovered how to use color. I will not use a lot, I promise, until it is completely gone.

#39 Gabriel (Jan.) Koestel

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 11:04 PM

[quote name='Paul']Time exists, we live in a time zone.
But time is based on nature, not on numbers.

Dear Paul,
there are two aspects to your question, and a personal one.
Any calendar, ancient or modern, orders civil life, it's history and communication. True is your observation that astronomical time is different from standart time developed over time. The monks of Mt. Athos (check the book "Miracles on the Monastery Mountain" by Douglas D. Lyttle) set the daily clock by the settting of the sun because Psalm 103 (LXX) praises the Creator (Book of Genesis: the day starts with the evening). Astronomy is reflected in the liturgical services, and allured to often.
Gabriel




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