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How old is the earth?


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#1 Guest_Jahzzz

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Posted 24 October 2001 - 01:48 AM

6000 years or 4.5 billion years?


#2 Guest_Chris Marks

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Posted 03 November 2001 - 04:24 PM

Perhaps you could start by telling us your own interpretation, Jahzzz?


#3 Guest_Anton I. Yermakov

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Posted 07 November 2001 - 04:26 AM

My own interpretation is that Earth is about 7,000 to 6,000 years old. (the Glorious Exalted Hesychasts who dwell in the Third Heaven can believe in "divine evolution", "Sanctified beast Adam", Apokastasis panton(God forbid and forgive me for mentioning this heresy!),Apophatic Theology, Divine Darkness, Fr. John Meyendorff, Byzantiology, levitation, Exalted Lights, etc, etc.)

I don't mean to offend anyone but I am a simple Orthodox believer, not a hesychast.

#4 Guest_Mark Davis

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Posted 10 November 2001 - 07:39 AM

Anton, I am not sure that I understand your reference to Fr John Meyendorff in this context! Could you clarify?

Mark


#5 Guest_Anton I. Yermakov

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Posted 16 November 2001 - 02:50 AM

The reference to Fr. John Meyendorff was there because he is a "prime example" of academic theology. The Pseudo-Hesychasts of our times tend to like it(Why?)

For example, in one of his books Father Meyendorff states "Nikon has altered the ancient Russian rites to match those of the Greeks. He was completely wrong". I happen to know Church Slavonic and both Rites (Old and New), so I decided to see who is right (St. Nikon or Fr. John.) Here is a perfect example: (translated into English)

New Rite: Let my prayer arise...
Old Rite: Let it arise itself, my prayer...

As you see, the Old Rite was plagued by mistakes and mistranlations. I could post more examples if you wish.

#6 M.C. Steenberg

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Posted 16 November 2001 - 04:54 PM

Greetings in Christ, Anton,

I would personally be quite interested in your posting a few more examples of what you believe to be 'mistakes and mistranslations' in the Old Rite. 'Let my prayer arise' and 'Let it arise itself, my prayer' are both admissable translations of the original text; though the latter is a bit more archaic in terms of emphatically translating the reflexive pronoun.

Could you pass along the title of Meyendorff's book from which you quoted?

Yours INXC,
Matthew


#7 Guest_John Popov

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Posted 11 December 2001 - 07:51 PM

According to text I have read, we are in the 7509th year since creation.


#8 M.C. Steenberg

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Posted 13 December 2001 - 11:17 AM

John, what text is this?


#9 Guest_Anton I. Yermakov

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Posted 27 December 2001 - 12:48 AM

I am sorry I have not been here for a long time due to illness. The passage is actually from Paul Meyendorff's book "Russia, Ritual and Reform". Sorry for the mistake.

For a good modern-day comparison to the Old Believers, the Matthewite Old Calendarists and ROCIE would be closest examples (although they are not schismatics)


#10 M.C. Steenberg

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Posted 27 December 2001 - 05:37 PM

Blessed Nativity to all. Anton, I am glad to see you here again, and hope you are feeling better. Thank you for the reference to Meyendorff's book.

I believe that there are a few genuine Old Believers still around, but they are scattered here and there and are especially small in number. Obviously nothing like their previous history!

INXC, Matthew


#11 Guest_Anton I. Yermakov

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Posted 01 January 2002 - 07:30 AM

I have quite a bit of experience with the "old" rite and the Old Believers. Most of the Old Believers are United Belief (in communion with the Patriarch). The schismatics are few in number and are extremely hostile against the Church.

(Also for a note- the Old believers boast of their old singing traditions. That is not true, actually- they have lost the tradition. For actual proper Znamenny and other ancient chants, Valaam monastery has it. The old believers, however, rush and bungle their chant beyond understanding. Their chants make the blood boil (in my experience).

#12 Guest_Gregory Myron

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Posted 02 February 2002 - 11:30 AM

Anton, where are these old believers you have experience with? Which part of the world? The experiences you describe don't match at all with my own experiences of the old believers. Perhaps some of these things are unique with the groups you've seen?

Gregory


#13 Guest_Anton I. Yermakov

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Posted 07 February 2002 - 03:25 AM

The Old Believers in my experience were both schismatic Priestless and Priestly Old Believers in the area of Moscow. Boris(?) Kutuzov, a choir conductor, was the most prominent one. ( I am not sure on what faith he is- but he is very hostile to St.Nikon and the restoration of service books)


#14 Guest_Razhden Guriadze

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Posted 01 April 2002 - 06:15 PM

I was told that the calendar we used in the country of Georgia was based on the time since creation.If that is true then this is the year 7509.

The calendar as I understand it starts the new year on the 1st of September, which falls on the 14th of Sept. in the Gregorian calendar.

#15 Guest_Ben Mincey

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Posted 03 April 2002 - 10:59 PM

According to geologists,the earth is approximately 4.6 billion years old.While this is based on science,I do not think that science and religion contradict each other.In my opinion,the more science uncovers about this universe we live in,the further we are pointed in the direction of God.We as human beings,the planet on which we live and the universe in which our world is placed,are far to perfect in their function and form to be "random".To say all is random and without purpose,is to insult the very intellect that God gave us!Did God not give us self awareness that we might know Him,and His infinite love for us?Is not learning about the endless wonders of God's creation, yet another way to learn about and love our Creator?I think that science can and should be turned to the glorification of our Lord and Savior,and a proper appreciation for His creation.The earth was created in six days,and on the seventh God rested.But how does God define a day,much less a year?May Christ bless you all and I ask that you pray for me,the most worthless of sinners.May God bless us all during this Holy Season.

In Christ,
Ben Mincey


#16 Guest_Razhden Guriadze

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Posted 04 April 2002 - 03:50 AM

Ben, I tend to agree with you.God gave Moses the story of creation by whatever means. He(God) told the story in a manner which was understandable by Moses.

There have been some interesting events in the area of "dating" carbon 14 dating can be off by several thousand years, if I understand correctly.The amino acid test is only off by less than a month.(I think.)

I heard of a test(the name of which I don't know) which gives the age of the dinosaur bones at about 7500 years. I am certainly not sure if this test actually exists or is somebody's idea of a joke.

I think that it would be funny to find out that God had "planted" the bones as His joke.
If this last test does exist and is accurate as I was told then we would have to look at some type of event which altered the aging process of bones.

I know that the leaky's "created(by them)" creature has been determined by Dna testing to be the bones of several animals and not one.

When we see God face-to-face we can ask Him.

God's blessings to all,
Razhden

#17 Guest_Ben Mincey

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Posted 05 April 2002 - 07:20 AM

You make an excellent point Razhden.Ultimately only God knows the whole story.But looking out at the vastness of creation and all the secrets that she holds,is a wondrous and humbling thing.There is another great inference you make about the Leakys.It is interesting how often the "secular world" forgets that the "theory of evolution" is just that-a "theory"Posted Image!

In Christ,
Ben


#18 Guest_Joseph Bell

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Posted 05 April 2002 - 06:29 PM

Perhaps the question posed should have been, "Do you have faith in God or science?" I believe that the two are not exclusive. My first priority is to faith in our God, the Trinity, one in essence and undivided. Atheism based on science is as daring as any philosophy, but not really any more valid. (It is based on paradigms that are, by definition, limited in their scope- and made to be broken!) I choose to play it safe by trusting in my heart, which through God's grace has led me to his Orthodox Church. In these last day's, we Christians are indeed being severly tested. May God bless us in our struggles and grant us the ability to be true and honest witnesses to the faith.

Yours in Christ,
Joseph Bell




#19 John Curtis Dunn

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Posted 06 April 2002 - 01:16 AM

Does the Sun rise and set or does the earth circle the sun while rotating on an axis?
Who doubts the first and how many people can prove the second? Are there two sciences or only one? Which world do you live within?

Searching for a Geological foundation for faith.

Every couple of weeks, or so, a fellow employee feels obligated to attempt to prove to me His belief that God does not exist is more rationale than my faith in the Divinity of Jesus Christ. What kind of rock does he build his house of faith upon, sand or stone? He argues it is upon the solid rock of science, which he assures me to be irrefutable. He assures me the "rocks cry out" the evidence which proves God to be an imaginary projection of man's attempt to make sense, purpose or meaning where there is none.
So for your ammusement I have written Irmos 3 with stichari(sp?) and Sedalion for a "Canon To The Foundation of Sand."

Irmos Tone 4.6 billion
'O let us give thanks to the Geologist for they have interpreted the sedimentary traditions hidden within the rocks. The Forerunner said, "Out of these stones God can raise up children unto Abraham." But the worldly wise Geologist has unveiled the secret age hidden as a pearl of great price within the earth.

REFRAIN: The rocks cry out to us, "there is no heaven or hell."

How old is planet earth the wise children asked the Geologist in 1865? A man named Thompson replied, Not a day older than 20 million years.

REFRAIN: The rocks cry out to us, "there is no heaven or hell."

Then in 1897, with the passage of only 32 years he discovered new math and found that 20 million years plus 32 years equals 40 million years, 20m + 32y = 40m. Yes, in the year 1897 the earth was a mere 40 million years old.

REFRAIN: The rocks cry out to us, "there is no heaven or hell."

In 1899, only two years later, J. Joly proclaimed the earth to be 90 million years old, 20m + 32y + 2y = 90m. Yes, in the year 1899 the earth was a mere 90 million years old.

REFRAIN: The rocks cry out to us, "there is no heaven or hell."

In 1921, only 22 years later, Rayleigh calculated the new age of the earth to be 1 billion, 20m + 32y + 2y + 22y = 1b. Yes, in 1921 the earth was a mere 1 billion years old.

REFRAIN: The rocks cry out to us, "there is no heaven or hell."

Then 11 years later W.O. Hotchkiss proved the earth to be 1.6 billion years old, 20m + 32y + 2y + 22y + 11y = 1.6b. Yes, in 1932 the earth was a mere 1.6 billion years old.

REFRAIN: The rocks cry out to us, "there is no heaven or hell."

Then A. Holmes in 1947 multiplied Hothkiss' sum by 26 years and arrived at 3.35 billion years; 20m + 32y + 2y + 22y + 11y X 26y = 3.35b. Yes, in 1947 the earth was a mere 3.5 billion years old.

[same tone]
Glory to the Big Bang Theory and to the Evolution between the species and to the Survival of the fittest.

Sedalion, Tone 3.5 billion

"Wait a minute, does not 1.6b X 26 years equal 3.5b not 3.35 billion. Well, yes if you insist that the first and last of the 26 years must have been full years. However, the first and or last of the 26 years must have been short of a full twelve months." (composers note: I will let others calculate the actual number of days required within the first or last of the 26 years to arrive at an exact sum of 3.35 billion. If you disagree with my formula, please remember we are adding apples and oranges.)]

[tone 4.6 billion]
For today we believe in 4.6 but tomorrow who can prevent us from 6.5 billion years.

____________________________________

Today Geologist instruct us to believe the earth to be shy of 5 billion years, or as Mr. Ben Mincey has stated it, "According to geologists, the earth is approximately 4.6 billion years old."
[see Post: Wednesday, April 03, 2002] In 137 years the earth has aged, 4.5 billion 980 million years. However, if we multiply all this by the life of dog; we can all return to our vomit.

As to the question about how God calculates a year? Any answer would simply be nonsensical. If someone insists on an answer however, I would say 365 days. Why not? Did not our Lord enter into time through a perfect gestation, that would be March 25 until December 25 {A formula that seems to work within either calendar.)

John Curtis


#20 John Curtis Dunn

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Posted 06 April 2002 - 01:35 AM

PS. Looking at the evolution of Geological earth dating kinda reminds a person of the JW's dating of the return of Christ....

John Curtis





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