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Picking a saint's name for myself


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#21 Irene

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 12:57 PM

Andrea, is a beautiful name for men, but for females it does not serve its purpose. :)

Italians also use Andrea for males. And I never heard it for females there also. They were attentive during their Greek language hour I guess.


An older Greek Orthodox lady attended our Russian Church and her name is Andrea, we are on good friendly terms with her, we sang together in choir and she lives near us.

#22 M.C. Steenberg

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 10:04 AM

It is also the case in the Greek tradition that men can occasionally be named after female patrons. This is rarer, and almost the only regularly-seen example is Panayiotes, named after the Mother of God.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

#23 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 10:48 AM

Thank you Olga for this. Are you sure Andrea is used for females in Greece? I never heard any females with that name there. Unless it is a recent tradition borrowed from other Christian countries. They probably did not know what Andrea means in Greek when they called females that way.


Nina, there is Andriana, which might be considered the feminine version of Andreas. I'm not 100% sure of this though.




Sotiria also means salvation, Anastasis means the Resurrection, and our dear Panayia which means All Holy, but which we also consider to be "over all the other saints." Some baby girls are baptised Parthena from "Parthena Maria" Virgin Mary.

pan : prefix which can mean "all, wholly, entirely, altogether." and Aghia - feminine form of Aghios which means both "holy" and "saint".

I love the various names for the Theotokos and there are so many, Maria, Despoina (which means Our Lady), Panayia, Parthena Maria. The word Panayia is the word most used for Our Lady Theotokos. And when we address Her we always say Panayia mou. My Panayia. Such a sweet, intimate relationship. We all consider Her to be our Mother.




http://www.fatherale..._a_coniaris.htm

The above is a very interesting text concerning what the orthodox church believes about saints and well worth reading.

Effie

#24 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 11:07 AM

Hello Nina

The name Andrea I used in my post is the female form of the name Andrew as known in the western world, not the Greek male name, also spelt Andrea, or, more properly, Andreas. The only instance I've come across a feminine form of Andrew in the Greek-speaking world is Androula, which is reasonably common in Cyprus. Many of the Greek islands (Cyprus, Rhodes, Zakynthos, Crete, and others) were greatly influenced by Venetian and other western customs over the centuries, including in names and language.


Olga, I had so much trouble with the different endings of words in Greek - English is so simple in comparison. I just wanted to say that Andreas is the proper name for a man but when we are addressing him directly we say Andrea. Andrea cannot be a woman's name because of Greek grammar. Irene's greek friend might have changed her name to a more English sounding name.

The name Androula is a pet name - oula at the end of names means something like Sandy for Sandra, or Kitty for Catherine. We also use other endings e.g. kafedaki for a cup of coffee, skilaki for dog instead of skili etc.

I used to think that women here were named Roula, Koula, Loula , Toula and it was only after a couple of years that I realised these are children's petnames that have never been changed. E.g. Roula can mean anthing from Theodora (Theodoroula) to Alexandra (Alexandroula). It depends on the ending of the original name.

Androula therefore might be Andriana, Andrea, - I can't think of any others. Sometimes though priests find themselves in a difficult position when mothers or godmothers insist on names that have nothing to do with Orthodoxy. One woman wanted to name her son Diana (!!!!) because she greatly admired this woman - OK a daughter named Diana I can understand after all Diana is a Greek word but a son! Her husband's family were in an uproar about it as this baby was the first born and the tradition here is that the paternal grandfather's name is bestowed on the firstborn male.

Effie

#25 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 11:39 AM

I was just reading the text of the Father Alexander link I posted above.

I found this in confirmation of how we think of the Theotokos in Greece.

"The Theotokos (Mother of God) is venerated and honored because of her Son and never apart from Him. She is the Panaghia, the first and fullest of the Saints, leading the Church in a continuous intercession to the Trinity."

Panayia : first and fullest of the Saints.

Also reading some of the words of the Liturgy in this same text, I couldn't help feeling once again the wondrous joy of it. It is so special that I wonder how anyone who has really heard and felt the words could ever think of either changing or "adapting" it.

Effie

#26 Father David Moser

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 03:05 PM

Sometimes though priests find themselves in a difficult position when mothers or godmothers insist on names that have nothing to do with Orthodoxy.


You know, that in the end, it is the priest who names the child. The parents can suggest and for the most part the priest will cooperate with their suggestion. However, when the priest baptises the child and speaks his or her name in the sacrament, that's the name that is given the child. So a priest could be in an uncomfortable position with mothers (and fathers as well) - but he actually has the final say.

I had a family that wanted to name their son "Berkeley" after the city in California. (who knows why). In the end we baptized the child "Nicholas" but in common usage his parents call him "Berk". Another woman brought her child for baptism. The non-Orthodox father insisted on no full name, just the initials J.D. Thus in baptism he was named John Daniel (JD for short) but it is J.D. that appears on the birth certificate.

Fr David Moser

#27 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 03:49 PM

You know, that in the end, it is the priest who names the child. The parents can suggest and for the most part the priest will cooperate with their suggestion. However, when the priest baptises the child and speaks his or her name in the sacrament, that's the name that is given the child. So a priest could be in an uncomfortable position with mothers (and fathers as well) - but he actually has the final say.

I had a family that wanted to name their son "Berkeley" after the city in California. (who knows why). In the end we baptized the child "Nicholas" but in common usage his parents call him "Berk". Another woman brought her child for baptism. The non-Orthodox father insisted on no full name, just the initials J.D. Thus in baptism he was named John Daniel (JD for short) but it is J.D. that appears on the birth certificate.

Fr David Moser


I do know that once the priest announces the name - even if it's the wrong one - it can't be changed. Here one of our priests, for some reason, didn't hear the name the parents wanted clearly. He baptised the child with a similar name. Perhaps that was what God wanted. We have examples in the New Testament about this, don't we.

Father David, I visited your site. I liked it very much.

Effie

#28 Nina

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:43 PM

Nina, there is Andriana, which might be considered the feminine version of Andreas. I'm not 100% sure of this though.

Effie


:) As long as my mama did not name me with a name that means manly, virile - it is good enough for me!

#29 David Naess

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 03:06 AM

Howdy!

Guess I will have to tell Father Patrick to call me anything but "Late To Dinner," eh? :rolleyes:

Dave

#30 Nina

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 03:32 AM

OK a daughter named Diana I can understand after all Diana is a Greek word but a son!
Effie


Yeah it may be a Greek word, but Diana is the Roman equivalent of Artemis. But wow! A man? Diana? :D :D :D

#31 Nina

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 03:42 AM

I had a family that wanted to name their son "Berkeley" after the city in California. (who knows why).
Fr David Moser


At least that's a beautiful name and a beautiful city.

Here I heard this anecdote:

One pregnant woman fell into a comma and when she woke up, her brother was there and told her that she had a C-section and had twins, a baby boy and a baby girl.

The woman was so happy and asked her brother: "Did you name them?"

"Yes." said the brother.

"How did you name my daughter?" - the woman asked.

"D'nise." - answered the brother.

"What about my son?" -she said.

"D'nephew."

#32 Olga

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 06:42 AM

Yeah it may be a Greek word, but Diana is the Roman equivalent of Artemis. But wow! A man? Diana? :D :D :D


There oughta be a law against such follies. Poor kid! Religious considerations aside, I see red when parents inflict "different" (often completely made-up) names on their children, or take conventional names and come up with a groovy or trendy spelling variant which the poor kid will have to spell out for the rest of his life every time someone asks. Names such as Catherine/Katherine/Kathryn, or Stephen/Steven are not the problem, as these are accepted, centuries-old traditional variants.

As for "a boy called Diana" (reminds me of the old Johnny Cash song A Boy Called Sue), this lad would have every right to be angry at his parents for foisting such ignominy on him. There are various names in English (and other languages) which have male and female forms, distinguishable by the spelling (or used to be ...) These include Leslie/Lesley, Kim/Kym, Vivian/Vivien (or the French form Vivienne). Diana is not one of them.

There are also other names which have alternated as male or female names at various times in history, such as Shirley (originally male), and Marion and Douglas could be used as male or female names. In the early 1930s, a young man by the name of Marion Morrison tried his luck in Hollywood. The studio moguls insisted he change his name if he was to get anywhere. This he did, and he soon became a household name. Who was he? John Wayne.

There is also the phenomenon of naming children after famous people, which is hardly new. However, spare a thought for this girl I knew: She had the surname of Clark, whose parents, in their infinite wisdom, decided to name her Petula. (British and Australian forum members of a certain age need no further explanation. For those who don't know who Petula Clark was, do an online search.) Like I said, there oughta be a law .....

#33 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 04:14 PM

Yeah it may be a Greek word, but Diana is the Roman equivalent of Artemis. But wow! A man? Diana? :D :D :D


Yes, Nina, you're right. Need I say once again that I don't check my posts before submitting them:o


The Romans adopted Greece's ancient gods and made them Roman by the simple expedient of renaming them. See how even Greeks are taken in by Roman cunning!!!!!

#34 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 04:27 PM

There oughta be a law against such follies. Poor kid! Religious considerations aside, I see red when parents inflict "different" (often completely made-up) names on their children, or take conventional names and come up with a groovy or trendy spelling variant which the poor kid will have to spell out for the rest of his life every time someone asks. Names such as Catherine/Katherine/Kathryn, or Stephen/Steven are not the problem, as these are accepted, centuries-old traditional variants.

As for "a boy called Diana" (reminds me of the old Johnny Cash song A Boy Called Sue), this lad would have every right to be angry at his parents for foisting such ignominy on him. There are various names in English (and other languages) which have male and female forms, distinguishable by the spelling (or used to be ...) These include Leslie/Lesley, Kim/Kym, Vivian/Vivien (or the French form Vivienne). Diana is not one of them.

....

There is also the phenomenon of naming children after famous people, which is hardly new. However, spare a thought for this girl I knew: She had the surname of Clark, whose parents, in their infinite wisdom, decided to name her Petula. (British and Australian forum members of a certain age need no further explanation. For those who don't know who Petula Clark was, do an online search.) Like I said, there oughta be a law .....


But Olga, Petula doesn't sound too bad. It sounds like the name of a flower. Remember "Downtown"?

#35 Nicolaj

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 06:35 PM

Being a convert to Orthodoxy myself I had to have a new name, cause me old one wasn't a name at all in any orthodox list.

Though the priest told me that only minutes before the good man would name me my new name, and there was on a stone in the floor before me the name Nicolaj, so I just stumbled on it and so I am Nicolaj now and forever.

But David is a cool name, and I think you should keep it, it suits to you!

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

#36 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 07:20 PM

Here in Greece we are named for our grandparents, this means that some names are not christian names as such but ancient Greek names. These however are acceptable.

My name is Euterpe, (pronounced Efterpi hence the petname Effie)the muse of music in Ancient Greek mythology. It was my paternal grandmother's name and has come down to me through many generations. When my son has his first daughter, he will continue this tradition if he wants to. His first son will be named Demetrius for his father, but again, it is his decision.

In the past when couples had more than two children the husband's parents had first priority. Today, when couples rarely have more than two children, the first child is named for the father's side of the family and the second for the mother's side.

The 40 virgin martyrs (celebrated on the 1st of September, the initiation of a new ecclesiastical year) include quite a few ancient names, including Euterpe.

The above might seem quite strange to people whose families aren't that traditional but, because of the love between spouses and the need to honour our parents, we like this system of name giving.

And it all works out for the best because, even if, at first, you don't particularly like a certain name, you do desire to honour your in-laws by bestowing their name on your child. And the funny part is that you grow to love the name because of the love you have for your child. One of the 10 commandments is to honour your parents and this is a simple way of doing this.

Effie

Edited by Effie Ganatsios, 22 January 2008 - 08:55 AM.
spelling + idiocy


#37 Olga

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 08:52 PM

Nina, there is Andriana, which might be considered the feminine version of Andreas. I'm not 100% sure of this though.
Effie


Andriana is a misspelling of Adriana, the feminine of Adrian.

#38 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 06:51 AM

Andriana is a misspelling of Adriana, the feminine of Adrian.


Olga, there is a greek name Andriana Αν-δρι-ανα, and it undoubtedly has the "n" in it. In my previous post, I wasn't sure whether this name was the female equivalent of Andreas because there is also the male name Andrian Αν-δρι - αν.

The English translations of a lot of names vary.


Just one example : I have seen quite a few different translations and spellings of my husband's name Δημητριος i.e. Demetrius, Demetrios, Dimitrios, Dimitrio, Dimitri.

Another thing that is confusing as well as being amusing is the personalized spelling of a lot of English names - names that, as someone else said here, sometimes come out of someone's head, sometimes are a petname for a name that has long been forgotten, etc. I presume though that some actors and actresses do this on purpose at the start of their careers so that their name will stand out and be remembered by fans and possible future agents.

I sometimes think how much better it would be, especially here, if people were addressed by their baptismal names, which are indeed beautiful, but admittedly some of them are a handful (mouthful???:)

Effie

#39 Irene

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 11:15 AM

The English translations of a lot of names vary.

Just one example : I have seen quite a few different translations and spellings of my husband's name Δημητριος i.e. Demetrius, Demetrios, Dimitrios, Dimitrio, Dimitri.


And Dmitri etc... in English is also the name James I believe?

#40 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 03:59 PM

And Dmitri etc... in English is also the name James I believe?


Dear Irene,

No- James is the way we say Jacob.

In Christ- Fr Raphael




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