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Picking a saint's name for myself


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#41 Father David Moser

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 04:16 PM

And Dmitri etc... in English is also the name James I believe?


Dear Irene,

No- James is the way we say Jacob.

In Christ- Fr Raphael


This is one of those confusing anglicization things about Greek names. James is the translation of Iakovos (or Jacob). However (according to an old college roommate who is now a priest in the Greek Church) when the Greek people immigrated and began to assimilate, they heard "Jimmy" as being similar to the name "Dzimi" which is a diminutive form of Demetrios. Dzimi became Jimmy which became Jim which became James and so there is now this confusion among Greek Americans as to whether Jim is Demetrios or Iakovos. (As for my friend, he is Fr Demetrios)

Fr David Moser

#42 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 04:25 PM

This is one of those confusing anglicization things about Greek names. James is the translation of Iakovos (or Jacob). However (according to an old college roommate who is now a priest in the Greek Church) when the Greek people immigrated and began to assimilate, they heard "Jimmy" as being similar to the name "Dzimi" which is a diminutive form of Demetrios. Dzimi became Jimmy which became Jim which became James and so there is now this confusion among Greek Americans as to whether Jim is Demetrios or Iakovos. (As for my friend, he is Fr Demetrios)

Fr David Moser


Once I was with Greek friends having a picnic in the hills outside of Komotini in northeastern Greece. Noticing a dent in the front bumper of their car I asked what had happened.

The answer was that the car was hit by a 'dzeep.' When I asked, "a sheep or a jeep" the same answer was made, " a dzeep." Eventually after much laughter on all sides I gave up asking.

To this day I still cannot tell you what hit their car.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#43 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 06:08 PM

And Dmitri etc... in English is also the name James I believe?



No, Dimitrios is Dimitrios. But in English speaking countries, a petname for Dimitrios is Jimmy. Dimi=Jimmy. Sounds similar. I believe though that this changing of names is slowly changing. Dimitrios/Dimitri is not a difficult name. Same goes for other names. I would rather call someone by their proper name e.g. Vladimir (the only one that came to mind) and not Vlad or whatever.

As Father Moser said St. James is ΙΑΚΩΒΑ/ΙΑΚΩΒΟΥ (Greek grammar endings again) which is Jacob (No J sound in the Greek alphabet).

Father Moser, looking up the last bit of information I noticed that in Greek the Letters of James, The first letter of Peter etc. are called the Catholic Epistles of James, Peter, John, Judas. Strange that I never noticed that before.

Effie

#44 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 06:13 PM

Once I was with Greek friends having a picnic in the hills outside of Komotini in northeastern Greece. Noticing a dent in the front bumper of their car I asked what had happened.

The answer was that the car was hit by a 'dzeep.' When I asked, "a sheep or a jeep" the same answer was made, " a dzeep." Eventually after much laughter on all sides I gave up asking.

To this day I still cannot tell you what hit their car.

In Christ- Fr Raphael


It would be better if a sheep had indeed hit their car - or their car had hit it..................

If you're on a country road and kill a sheep you end up paying so much for it, it might as well be prime beef. AND you don't get the sheep - the villagers keep it and cook it (if there's anything left to cook, of course).


The jeep would be covered by insurance.

#45 Karena Hryniuk

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 08:39 PM

On the subject of dz, one of the cutest things is hearing a true Greecian say the name "George"

:P

In Christ
Karena


#46 Nina

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 11:02 PM

Oh, do not even get me started on how people pronounce other people's names, or words in other languages! It is so hilarious and so many (the cross-linguistic/cultural mispronunciation) that I can even write a book about it.

My favs are some people saying some Italian words, food. Not to mention French, Spanish etc.

#47 Olga

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 03:11 AM

Another of my pet peeves (grumpy old woman that I am ...) is the James/Dimitri phenomenon, where an alternative name in another language is given without an understanding of its origin. As well as James/Dimitri, I have come across Natasha as a substitute for Anastasia (Natasha is a diminutive of Natalia), Jonathan where the baptismal name is John (two entirely different names, folks!), and attempts by parents to have their children baptised using a diminutive form of name such as Sonia instead of Sophia.

Further to Greek pronunciation of J: Standard Greek does not have this sound, but it is a sound heard in various Greek dialects, particularly in the north of Greece. Such dialects also have the sounds ch, sh and zh, which are otherwise not part of standard Greek.

#48 Anthony

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 08:27 AM

In Germany Russian names like Anya, Sonya, Katya, Natasha are currently very popular, and are considered completely different names from Anna, Sophie, Katerina etc. It gets very confusing for me. It must be even worse for German Orthodox priests reading prayer lists.

#49 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 10:28 AM

Well, how about this for name mix-ups.

My mother's baptismal name is Hionati/ Χιονατη which translated into English means Snow-White (remember the fairy tale?). Her petname is Hionia (all Hionatis up here are called Hionia), which translated into English becomes Sonia. She has always been called this in English. From Hionati to Sonia is quite a step, isn't it. But what else could she be called - Snow White?

She is a snow white, blue eyed blonde and the name fits, but really! No one is ever called this.

Effie

#50 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 10:30 AM

Another of my pet peeves (grumpy old woman that I am ...) is the James/Dimitri phenomenon, where an alternative name in another language is given without an understanding of its origin. As well as James/Dimitri, I have come across Natasha as a substitute for Anastasia (Natasha is a diminutive of Natalia), Jonathan where the baptismal name is John (two entirely different names, folks!), and attempts by parents to have their children baptised using a diminutive form of name such as Sonia instead of Sophia.

Further to Greek pronunciation of J: Standard Greek does not have this sound, but it is a sound heard in various Greek dialects, particularly in the north of Greece. Such dialects also have the sounds ch, sh and zh, which are otherwise not part of standard Greek.


The nearest sound would be τζ tz - as in tzami - minaret.

#51 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 10:45 AM

On the subject of dz, one of the cutest things is hearing a true Greecian say the name "George"

:P

In Christ
Karena


Yior- ios is the closest I can come to how this name is pronounced.

#52 Nina

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 04:51 PM

Further to Greek pronunciation of J: Standard Greek does not have this sound, but it is a sound heard in various Greek dialects, particularly in the north of Greece. Such dialects also have the sounds ch, sh and zh, which are otherwise not part of standard Greek.

In Cyprus too.

#53 Grace McCann

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 05:58 PM

I didn't have a saint's name, though I don't understand why I couldn't just keep mine and turn into a saint someday, so someone else 200 yrs from now, could be named after me... ;)

My priest picked St Mary of Egypt for me. He said, because she was brown like me! LOL. I picked her too, before I'd talked to him. But only because she's a woman, and I was told I had to have a woman saint.

The saint I pray to, is the one who led me into the Church and found our parish for us: St John the Baptist. Perhaps this is presumptuous and foolish, but I just know he loves me. I have no connection with St Mary.
I tried praying that short little prayer to a Patron saint by inserting her name in it: "Pray to God for me Holy Father/Mother ---------, for I diligently run to you, the speedy helper and intercessor for my soul" - and I never felt comfortable using her name. Mostly because, I'd spend the day talking to St John, (or complaining or whining or arguing), and then just that tiny line for her... So I don't bother anymore. I figured, she wouldn't be offended because she probably loves St John as much as I do.

Whenever I read about other saints, and I'm really touched by something, then I pray to them for a while, until it drops out of my mind.

I was at the monastery of St Nektarios yesterday, and picked up some Holy oil from his vigil lamp, and a small magnet icon. I'd heard a story about him while a catechumen, and I'd forgotten because there were just too many stories and names to keep in order. Then, when I started hearing stories about him again at the monastery, I instantly remembered the very first story I'd heard of him, and I felt like I'd found someone I'd been searching for. All the names of the Saints were written in Greek, but I figured out which one was St Nektarios. I still double checked with my friend, but I wasn't surprised when she pointed to the icons that I thought were his. I prayed to him last night and this morning, and I still feel connected to him. A different kind of connection, than with St John.

Then, there's St John of Kronstadt, St Theophan the Recluse, St Euphrosynos the Cook... And although he's not a saint yet... Elder Porphyrios! Totally love him for some reason.

Hmmm... I wonder if the reason St Mary is my patron saint is because I only seem to be connecting with the men saints! ;)

Lord have mercy!




Hi Mary,

A happy and Blessed New Years wish to you. This is an interesting thread about the saints. I have a passion for cooking and never realized the was a Saint that was a cook. Could you point me in the direction of a resource where I may learn more about St. Euphrosynos the Cook.

from the heart, Grace

#54 Grace McCann

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 06:04 PM

:) Hi Mary,

A happy and Blessed New Years wish to you. This is an interesting thread about the saints. I have a passion for cooking and never realized the was a Saint that was a cook. Could you point me in the direction of a resource where I may learn more about St. Euphrosynos the Cook.

from the heart, Grace

#55 Olga

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 08:24 PM

Well, how about this for name mix-ups.

My mother's baptismal name is Hionati/ Χιονατη which translated into English means Snow-White (remember the fairy tale?). Her petname is Hionia (all Hionatis up here are called Hionia), which translated into English becomes Sonia. She has always been called this in English. From Hionati to Sonia is quite a step, isn't it. But what else could she be called - Snow White?

She is a snow white, blue eyed blonde and the name fits, but really! No one is ever called this.

Effie


There is a Martyr Chionia, a 4th century saint commemorated on July 16, along with her fellow martyrs Paul and Alevtina. Another martyr, Chionia of Illyria, is commemorated on April 16, as one of the Three Virgin-martyrs, the others being Irene and Agape. A more recently-glorified saint is Chionia of Voronezh (+1945), one of the Russian New Martyrs and Confessors.

Edited by Olga, 23 January 2008 - 09:14 PM.
adding more information


#56 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 08:53 PM

:) Hi Mary,

A happy and Blessed New Years wish to you. This is an interesting thread about the saints. I have a passion for cooking and never realized the was a Saint that was a cook. Could you point me in the direction of a resource where I may learn more about St. Euphrosynos the Cook.

from the heart, Grace


I'm not Mary, but if I may presume to interject, there is some information available here: The Life of St. Euphrosynos

His icon and another account of his life can be found here

Your servant,
Herman

#57 Grace McCann

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 12:42 AM

I'm not Mary, but if I may presume to interject, there is some information available here: The Life of St. Euphrosynos

His icon and another account of his life can be found here

Your servant,
Herman




Thank you for kindness in your response Herman. (and happy new year wishes to you also) :)

From the heart, Grace

#58 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 06:16 AM

There is a Martyr Chionia, a 4th century saint commemorated on July 16, along with her fellow martyrs Paul and Alevtina. Another martyr, Chionia of Illyria, is commemorated on April 16, as one of the Three Virgin-martyrs, the others being Irene and Agape. A more recently-glorified saint is Chionia of Voronezh (+1945), one of the Russian New Martyrs and Confessors.



Thanks Olga for that information. Mum's baptismal name is Hionati/a but C/Hionia is what she was called. Names are so fascinating aren't they? Olga is also a Greek name although many might think it is Russian. What is the origin of your name? My husband has a niece whose name is Olga and we celebrate her nameday on the 14th of July. It is sometimes confusing with namedays because some saints are celebrated two or three times.

One New Martyr saint that I want to look up is Christ the Gardener 1748. I noticed this name the other day in a book and it fascinated me. I haven't googled the information yet (what a wonderful thing the internet is!) because I want to imagine what this person and his life might have been like, and why he is called "the gardener". One of my hobbies is gardening.

Effie

#59 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 07:01 AM

I found the information I wanted, but only in Greek. I translated it into English.

"Ο ΑΓΙΟΣ ΧΡΗΣΤΟΣ ό Κηπουρός
Ό νεομάρτυρας αυτός καταγόταν από την Αλβανία. Σέ ηλικία 40 χρονών πήγε στην Κωνσταντινούπολη καί έκανε το επάγγελμα του κηπουρού. Κάποια μέρα φιλονίκησε με έναν Τούρκο για την τιμή των μήλων πού πουλούσε. Συνελήφθη καί οδηγήθηκε στον Κριτή, συκοφαντούμενος, ότι είπε ότι θα γίνει Τούρκος. Τότε τον έριξαν στη φυλακή, χωρίς ψωμί καί νερό, καί τον βασάνισαν σκληρά. Στήν ίδια φυλακή βρισκόταν καί ό λόγιος Καισάριος Δαπόντε, πού παρακολούθησε τα βασανιστήρια του Άγιου καί αργότερα έγραψε το μαρτύριο του. Ό Χρήστος παρέμεινε σταθερός στην πίστη των πατέρων του καί αποκεφαλίστηκε στις 12 Φεβρουαρίου 1748 στην Κων/πολη.

Holy Christ the Gardener
This neo-martyr originally came from Albania. At the age of 40 he went to Constantinople and became a gardener. One day he quarreled with a Turk over the price of the apples he was selling. He was arrested and sent to Crete (which was ruled by the Turks) falsely accused of having said that he would become a Turk. He was sent to goal, without being given either bread or water, and was tortured. The writer Caesar Daponte (originally Constantinos Daponte) was in the same goal and witnessed the torture of the Saint. He later wrote about his martyrdom. Christ remained loyal to the (Orthodox) religion of his fathers and was beheaded on the 12th of February, 1748 in Constantinople."


Not quite what I expected but very interesting nevertheless. How could a humble market gardener be so strong and resist torture (obviously because of his faith in God and his unwillingness to become Muslim) and why was it a crime to the Turks to say that you wanted to become a Turk?

#60 Olga

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 07:50 AM

Thanks Olga for that information. Mum's baptismal name is Hionati/a but C/Hionia is what she was called. Names are so fascinating aren't they? Olga is also a Greek name although many might think it is Russian. What is the origin of your name? My husband has a niece whose name is Olga and we celebrate her nameday on the 14th of July. It is sometimes confusing with namedays because some saints are celebrated two or three times.


Olga is not a Greek name in origin, it is the Slavic form of Helga, a Scandinavian name that came into what is now Russia through the Vikings (also known in earlier times as Varangians) at least as far back as the ninth century. Both names mean holy (boy, do I have a lot to live up to! :eek:) Olga is reasonably common in northern Greece (possibly due to the Slavic Balkan influence, particularly from Serbia and Bulgaria), less common in more southern regions.

Just a little for now on St Olga:

Great-princess Olga lived in the tenth century, and was the first ruler of the emerging Russian empire (Kievan Rus') to become Christian, and she promoted the spread of Christianity in those lands. Her son Svyatoslav, who succeeded her as ruler, did not convert, but was not hostile to Christians. Olga's grandson, Vladimir, not only was baptised, but established Orthodoxy as the official religion of his realm. This event, in 988, is known as "the baptism of Russia". Sts Vladimir and Olga are ranked "equals-to-the-apostles" and "enlighteners of Russia", as are Sts Cyril and Methodius.

St Olga's feast day is, in fact, July 11, not July 14. As for saints who have more than one feastday, this is usually due to one day being for the death/repose of the saint, the other for the translation of relics, or some other noteworthy occasion. St Nicholas of Myra is a good example of this - in December, and in May. Apostle Thomas is another: October 6 (his martyrdom), June 30 (along with the other eleven apostles), and the first Sunday after Easter, known as Thomas' Sunday. But the record for the number of feastdays for one saint (not including the Mother of God) goes to St John the Baptist: six.

Where there are multiple feastdays for a given patron saint, one date is chosen as that person's nameday. Apparently it's not right to celebrate multiple namedays.




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