Jump to content


Photo
* - - - - 168 votes

Forgiveness Sunday: asking your forgiveness


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#1 Sieglinde McGinnis

Sieglinde McGinnis

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 21 posts

Posted 02 February 2008 - 08:57 PM

As tomorrow is the Sunday of Cheesefare for me, and therefore also Forgiveness Sunday, -and- as I will be rather busy tomorrow with family things and a gathering of friends later in the day, I wanted to take this opportunity to beg the forgiveness of all of you for any way in which I have given offense or scandal during the past year. I assure you of both my forgiveness and also of my prayers during this holy season.

Hospodi pomiluj,
Sieglinde

#2 Effie Ganatsios

Effie Ganatsios

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 03 February 2008 - 07:55 AM

Sieglinde, I am a little confused : Cheesefare Sunday is on March 9th, 2008 for the New Calendar orthodox. Why is it earlier for you? Or am I confusing two different things?

No matter though. I forgive you and I also ask for your forgiveness. I am sometimes abrupt in my messages - I write and post without allowing an interval, perhaps of one day, to intervene.

Effie

#3 Paul Cowan

Paul Cowan

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,064 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 03 February 2008 - 07:50 PM

I don't mind starting forgiveness Sunday a little early this year.

I pray and beg of you all to forgive me my transgressions against you in heart and in my writing.

Humbly,
Paul

#4 Kris

Kris

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 383 posts

Posted 03 February 2008 - 08:52 PM

Sieglinde, I am a little confused : Cheesefare Sunday is on March 9th, 2008 for the New Calendar orthodox. Why is it earlier for you? Or am I confusing two different things?


New Calendar Orthodox, except for the Church of Finland, use the Old Calendar for Pascha, and therefore for Cheesfare Sunday.

Since Sieglinde is a Catholic, I'm assuming tomorrow is cheesfare according to the Gregorian Paschalion.

#5 Nina

Nina

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,149 posts

Posted 04 February 2008 - 12:35 AM

I don't mind starting forgiveness Sunday a little early this year.

I pray and beg of you all to forgive me my transgressions against you in heart and in my writing.

Humbly,
Paul


No! I do not forgive you. :P

Do not be sad, I have still time. :) Although you have done no wrong to me, only blessings. :)

#6 Sieglinde McGinnis

Sieglinde McGinnis

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 21 posts

Posted 04 February 2008 - 01:25 AM

Kris is correct, today is Cheesefare/Forgiveness Sunday for me because I'm Catholic. Our Pascha is March 23! Thank you for extending your forgiveness to me, and I do the same although none of you have offended me in any way!

#7 Effie Ganatsios

Effie Ganatsios

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 February 2008 - 08:39 AM

Sieglinde, I have to confess that I didn't even notice that you are Catholic and that's why I was quite confused. Sorry. How wonderful that you would think of posting such a message.

Effie

#8 Father David Moser

Father David Moser

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 3,581 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member
  • Verified Cleric

Posted 04 February 2008 - 02:25 PM

Sieglinde, I am a little confused : Cheesefare Sunday is on March 9th, 2008 for the New Calendar orthodox.


It is for all Orthodox regardless of calendar. Forgiveness Sunday is part of the Paschal cycle which is the same for all Orthodox Christians regardless of the fixed calendar (new or old) that is used.

Fr David Moser

#9 M.C. Steenberg

M.C. Steenberg

    Former Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,843 posts

Posted 04 February 2008 - 08:30 PM

Forgiveness Sunday is part of the Paschal cycle which is the same for all Orthodox Christians regardless of the fixed calendar (new or old) that is used.


... except for the Orthodox Church in Finland.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

#10 Rdr Andreas

Rdr Andreas

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,035 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 February 2008 - 10:49 PM

Quotation:
Originally Posted by Father David Moser
Forgiveness Sunday is part of the Paschal cycle which is the same for all Orthodox Christians regardless of the fixed calendar (new or old) that is used.

... except for the Orthodox Church in Finland.

INXC, Dcn Matthew


. . . and since the Orthodox Church in Finland will therefore mark Pascha well before the Jewish Passover, it is in gross violation of the Holy Tradition of the Orthodox Church.

#11 M.C. Steenberg

M.C. Steenberg

    Former Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,843 posts

Posted 04 February 2008 - 11:03 PM

. . . and since the Orthodox Church in Finland will therefore mark Pascha well before the Jewish Passover, it is in gross violation of the Holy Tradition of the Orthodox Church.


Be that as it may, as a point of accuracy, it remains true that the Orthodox Church in Finland follows the Gregorian Paschalion. This is at least in part because they were forced to do so by the Finnish government, by most accounts I've heard (though I've never looked further into it).

INXC, Dcn Matthew

#12 Sieglinde McGinnis

Sieglinde McGinnis

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 21 posts

Posted 05 February 2008 - 12:43 AM

Sieglinde, I have to confess that I didn't even notice that you are Catholic and that's why I was quite confused. Sorry. How wonderful that you would think of posting such a message.

Effie


Wow, thanks Effie! I really do love this tradition, as I am a member of a lay confraternity whose Rule advises that we are to be at peace with all.....I also think it is a wonderful way to begin the holy season of the Great Fast - by emptying ourselves of misgivings and anger at others, we can perhaps be more able to be filled with the light of Christ and carry it into the world.

#13 Anna K.

Anna K.

    Regular Poster

  • Validating
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 05 February 2008 - 08:29 AM

This is at least in part because they were forced to do so by the Finnish government, by most accounts I've heard (though I've never looked further into it).

INXC, Dcn Matthew


Sorry to say but it doesn't seem quite as simple as that to me. Of course my capacity to study all sources of Finnish church history is limited but what I've read, it doesn't sound completely so innocent. Things had to do with our country's becoming indepent of Russia in 1917 and the need (for reasons that at least afterwards and on the outside seem to be nationalistic) of the orthodox Finns also to become independent of the Russian Church and not associated in any way to the Soviet Union in the eyes of the lutheran majority...

But many hurtful regrettable things happened as there was much dispute about the calendar at the time. I don't want to blame anyone but I wish, I wish those things hadn't gone the way they did.

Many here say that Orthodoxy in Finland wouldn't have survived otherwise - but we'll never know will we? Many people left the Church to join the majority anyway in the pressure. I can't even know if I'd ever have heard of this Truth... but God knows - He would have had His ways in any case - but would I in my weakness been able to receive it would have been another story... He knows that, too.

A difficult post - forgive me, if I've been too judgemental, or too "round", or hurt someone!

In Christ
Anna

#14 Rdr Andreas

Rdr Andreas

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,035 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 05 February 2008 - 09:59 AM

orthodox Finns also to become independent of the Russian Church and not associated in any way to the Soviet Union in the eyes of the lutheran majority...


How strange that people could have been prejudiced against the Russian Orthodox Church because of its association with the Soviet Union whose government persecuted it so much!

#15 Anna K.

Anna K.

    Regular Poster

  • Validating
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:14 AM

How strange that people could have been prejudiced against the Russian Orthodox Church because of its association with the Soviet Union whose government persecuted it so much!


I agree.

We people do act strange - it's almost in a bigger scale as if we sometimes as teenagers abandon completely everything our mother has said and taught (and especially what we've inherited from her) only to - hopefully - come to our senses in our wiser middle-aged years :).

Although some have the blessing to avoid this kind of rebellious struggle of growing up, many don't in our fallen world. And there's lots of mending to do sometimes, you only hope that it truly will be possible and dealt with.

In Christ
Anna

#16 Anna K.

Anna K.

    Regular Poster

  • Validating
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:51 AM

to - hopefully - come to our senses in our wiser middle-aged years :).


I wonder - how long it takes for a church to get to it's middle-aged years? And will it?

I hope I don't sound too much like I'm making excuses - I'm in the middle of this thing myself at the moment so I'm trying to understand and choose the right way for my own tiny little life.

I'm also somewhat shocked at the creepy crawlers under rocks that I lift on the way (how people acted towards each other and how you still can see traces of the history in people). - And that shock makes me try explain in order to not judge (I'm not doing a very good job, though).

I know I must sound obscure too, trying to say something but not say too much - so maybe I should stop.

In Christ
Anna

#17 Nina

Nina

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,149 posts

Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:01 PM

How strange that people could have been prejudiced against the Russian Orthodox Church because of its association with the Soviet Union whose government persecuted it so much!


Well for starters because of people like this Patriarch you mentioned also:

A book has recently been published in Russia which is the fullest account of what happened in the ROC between the death of St Tikhon and that of Patriarch Sergius. My wife is reading it and translating bits as she goes along. The book makes use of all archive material recently opened (extensive footnotes give chapter and verse for everything said). Russians obviously knew far less about Patriarch Sergius than did people in the West, and the book, it seems, makes distressing reading as it reveals the extent of the collaboration and betrayal by Sergius. But of interest is the position of those hierarchs and other clergy who opposed Sergius. It is sometimes said that they 'separated' from him and were not 'in communion' with him, implying that the ROC was 'split'. What seems to have been the most usual case is that Sergius's opponents ceased to commemorate him, but they never thought of themselves as being outside of the ROC/MP even though they considered that Sergius was. St Afanasii (Sakharov) refused to commemorate Sergius but did accept Alexy I. All this seems to support the view that the New Martyrs were indeed of MP and not, as some extreme people say, outside it. Thus the ROC is the Church of the Martyrs, and this is why one feels such grace in the churches in Russia.


Second, there are many misconceptions about Russia in Europe. For instance, I talked to some people who went to Estonia, and they said: "Oh, this country has suffered so much from the Russians! Like most of Europe. They occupied it with communism." When I nicely tried to remind them about the real history, they said other things, and it was impossible to get a different message through.

I think that something else is not helping. Whatever complains you Andreas posted about Russians in the thread "A Russian Orthodoxy?", are happening not only in Russia, but in many areas of Europe. And people feel resentful. I hope that these things will not become a barrier for other nations to see the light of Orthodoxy that comes from Russia. To apply a saying from Geronda Paisios (I think) I hope that people will be like the bee that looks for flowers even if the field has a lot of waste.

#18 Paul Cowan

Paul Cowan

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,064 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 14 February 2010 - 04:07 AM

As we once again enter Great Lent and prepare for Forgiveness Vespers; of all of you I have lied to, slighted by comments or lack of, ridiculed, demeaned, held in comtempt, talked behind your back, spoken harshly to, embarassed, injured your pride or in any other way have caused you pain, I prayfully and humbly ask your forgiveness. Please forgive me.

THE worst of sinners
Paul

#19 Marianthy

Marianthy

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 73 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 14 February 2010 - 04:16 AM

Not knowing where else to post this, i wanted to ask for the forgiveness of all my monachos friends. May you and your families have a blessed sarakosti.

Marianthy

#20 Nina

Nina

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,149 posts

Posted 14 February 2010 - 04:49 AM

I received this by email from a friend. But I was also told that there is something to be corrected in number 3. Since I am not so knowledgeable I am just posting it as it is and then friends or priests from here can correct it. Thank you. And please forgive me!

Why Is Forgiveness Sunday so-called?

St Tikhon answers this question quite well:

"Today is called "Forgiveness Sunday". It received this name from the pious Orthodox Christian custom at Vespers of asking each other's forgiveness for discourtesy and disrespect. We do so, since in the forthcoming fast we will approach the sacrament of Penance and ask the Lord to forgive our sins, which forgiveness will be granted us only if we ourselves forgive each other. "If ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matt. 6.14, 15)" (From a sermon by St Patriarch Tikhon, when he was Bishop of Alaska and the Aleutian Islands. 1901. Text taken from email posted to an Orthodox mailing list)

QUESTION 2

What event is commemorated on Forgiveness Sunday?

On the last Sunday before Great Lent begins, we remember the expulsion of Adam and Eve from paradise.

Adam was banished from Paradise through disobedience / and cast out from delight, / beguiled by the words of a woman. / Naked he sat outside the garden, lamenting 'Woe is me!' / Therefore let us all make haste to accept the season of the Fast / and hearken to the teaching of the Gospel, / that we may gain Christ's mercy // and receive once more a dwelling-place in Paradise. (Sticheron from Lord I have cried, 6th tone, Forgiveness Sunday)

QUESTION 3

The last weekend before Great Lent is the last time we do several things. Can you think of three things that are not done again until after Great Lent (or even well after Pascha)?

Forgiveness Sunday is the last day in which we eat milk, cheese, eggs and other dairy products until Pascha.

It is also the last Sunday we will serve St. John Chrysostom's liturgy until Palm Sunday (which, by the way, is not considered to be in Great Lent). During the holy fast, St Basil's liturgy is served on Sundays.

The matins service for this weekend is the last time the theologically rich and compunctionate singing of "By the Waters of Babylon" psalm until next year. It is only sung in church the three Sundays that precede Great Lent.

QUESTION 4

Fasting is discussed in the services on Forgiveness Sunday, and all the days of Great Lent. What *most important* kind of fasting is stressed over and over?

The services of the church and the fathers stress over and over that our physical fast from food is useless if we do not also strive to "fast" from our iniquities. Fasting from food is an important aid to the help purify the soul, and to gain in virtue.

The season of the virtues now has come / and the Judge is at the door. / Let us not hold back with darkened face, / but let us keep the Fast, / offering tears, contrition and almsgiving; / and let us cry: / 'Our sins are more in number than the sand of the sea; / but, Deliverer of all, forgive each one of us, // that we may receive an incorruptible crown.' (Sessional Hymns after the 1st Psalter Reading)

The arena of the virtues has been opened. / Let all who wish to struggle for the prize now enter, / girding themselves for the noble contest of the Fast; / for those that strive lawfully are justly crowned. / Taking up the armor of the Cross, / let us make war against the enemy. / Let us have as our invincible rampart the Faith, / prayer as our breastplate, and as our helmet almsgiving; / and as our sword / let us use fasting that cuts away all evil from our heart. / If we do this, we shall receive the true crown // from Christ the King of all at the Day of Judgment. (Praises)

Adam was driven out of Paradise, / because in disobedience he had eaten food; / but Moses was granted the vision of God, / because he had cleansed the eyes of his soul by fasting. / If then we long to dwell in Paradise, / let us abstain from all needless food; / and if we desire to see God, / let us like Moses fast for forty days. / With sincerity let us persevere in prayer and intercession; / let us still the passions of our soul; / let us subdue the rebellious instincts of the flesh. / With light step let us set out upon the path to heaven, / where the choirs of angels with never-silent voice / sing the praises of the undivided Trinity; / and there we shall behold the surpassing beauty of the Master. / O Son of God, Giver of Life, / in Thee we set our hope: / count us worthy of a place there with the angelic hosts, / at the intercessions of the Mother who bore Thee, O Christ, / of the apostles and the martyrs // and of all the saints.' (Praises)

QUESTION 5
What is commemorated next Sunday (the first Sunday of Great Lent)?


On the first Sunday of Great Lent we celebrate the "Triumph of Orthodoxy".

QUESTION 6
What is the fasting typicon for next week, and all the days in the Lenten season?

During all of Great Lent, we eat no animal products (with one exception). We abstain from all flesh meat, fish, milk, cheese and other milk products, eggs, olive oil, wine and hard liquor on all weekdays (Monday through and including Friday). On the weekend (Saturday and Sunday), the fast is relaxed a little. We can have olive oil or wine if we wish. On Annunciation, fish is allowed, since this is such a joyful feast of the Mother of God.


QUESTION 7
During Great Lent, we sing the long and rich canon of St Andrew of Crete. When and in which services?

The first 4 evening of Great Lent (Clean Monday through Clean Thursday), we serve Great Compline, and a portion of the Great Canon of St Andrew of Crete. During Matins for the 5th Thursday of Great Lent, (usually served Wednesday evening), we read the life of St. Mary of Egypt, and chant the Great Canon in its entirety.

QUESTION 8
Describe the dialogue in the Great canon. Who is speaking? Who is being spoken to?

The Great Canon is a one way dialogue of St Andrew speaking to his soul. We would do well to put ourselves in his place when the canon is being chanted.

QUESTION 9
Describe in general terms the content of the Great Canon.

The Great canon is a dialogue between St Andrew of Crete and his soul. He brings to bear many examples of the righteous and the unrighteous from the Old and New Testaments in order to show himself good and bad examples, make himself ashamed of his sins, and spur himself to repentance. There is also significant mystical theology and typology that the saint elucidates in the midst of his lamentations.

QUESTION 10
What are the essential virtues that are a necessity for salvation that shine forth brightly in the words of the Great Canon?

Humility, and with it, self-knowledge. Hope in God, because of knowledge of WHO HE IS.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users