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Will Satan be saved?


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#21 Nina

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 09:02 PM

Guys, guys: God, Who created Eosphoros the Angel who rebelled and became the Devil, loves him and us more than we are capable of loving. Now it is ok to love. But we can never love more than God. The Creator loves his creatures more than the creatures can love other creatures. So our command is to love God with all our might and also to love our neighbor. What God does it is His job; and we can't usurp the job of God. Many Fathers when people ask such questions tell them that we do not love others more than God loves them so we must stop reacting this way. Our duty is to love each other. :)

#22 Darlene Griffith

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 10:37 PM

Please quote specifically wherein I stated that it was "cool" that Satan could be saved. You are willing to put words into my mouth and make false accusations against me. Why should I take you, then, as a spiritual elder, an example to emulate in gleefully anticipating that any being at all be damned?


Forgive me Bryan. I am so sorry. I confused you with someone else (the original poster) and in doing so offended and sinned against you. Perhaps Fr. Dcn Brian Patrick has said the wisest of all comments here, "Pardon me for not taking this particular thread very seriously."

I do ask though, is Kosta's statement that he made in comment #14 correct? Did the sixth ecumenical council do such a thing?

At the end of it all, after all has been said, I can never pray for Satan to be saved. Such a thing is abhorrent to my heart and soul.

#23 Antonios

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 04:30 AM

I think we should be spending our time worrying about our own eternal judgment then that of satan. He will get his just rewards, as will we.

#24 Kosta

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 06:24 AM

I do ask though, is Kosta's statement that he made in comment #14 correct? Did the sixth ecumenical council do such a thing?


OOPS, it was the 5th ecumenical council. The anathemas of Justinian against Origen:

VII.
If anyone says or thinks that Christ the Lord in a future time will be crucified for demons as he was for men, let him be anathema.

IX.
If anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration (ἀποκατάστασις) will take place of demons and of impious men, let him be anathema.

#25 Christian Paul

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:18 AM

Peace to all!

It is clear that Satan and the demons will never be saved from eternal damnation. First it is heresy to think otherwise going against the Doctrine of Christ Jesus our Precious and Merciful Lord. Let us hear what He says:

28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.” (Holy Gospel of Mark chap.3)


Here Christ warns us of the dangers of judging wrongly and mistaken the Action of the Holy Spirit for the action of the devil... That is why many so-called Christians will be condemned for having wrongly accuse what was the Action of God Himself, as the Pharisees did in the time of Jesus and still do against now the Church:

24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.” (Matthew 12)


The unpardonable sin is unpardonable because of its very nature which is the rejection of the Mercy of God which would have given the accused to be forgiven... Mistaken the Spirit of Truth for the spirit of lies cuts out the Unpardonable Sinner from the Kingdom of Heaven having rejected the Mercy which would have pardon him... For it is by the Spirit of Truth that all men are saved for He is the Giver of Life. Without the Spirit of Truth no one can enter the Heavens... Without the Living Faith meaning without Christ and His Holy Spirit in us no one can dare to enter the Eternal Dwellings...

Now by extension if men guilty of the blaspheme of the Holy Spirit can not escape eternal damnation then a fortiori the demons can not for they blaspheme continuously the Spirit of Truth by being spirit of lies which are Anti-spirit of Light and Love. Also Revelation is clear:

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20)

#26 Zechariah C.

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 07:55 PM

Here's a good reference:

[TABLE="class: tborder, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: alt1, bgcolor: #F0F8FF"]"IX. If anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration (ἀποκατάστασις) will take place of demons and of impious men, let him be anathema." - The Fifth Ecumenical Synod, The Anathematisms of the Emperor Justinian Against Origen[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

EDIT: I'm sorry. I just realized someone else posted this already.

Edited by Zechariah C., 21 July 2011 - 08:28 PM.
realized this was already posted


#27 IoanC

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:26 PM

It's not that Satan can't repent, it is that he does not repent. The situation revolves around the fact that God does not force anybody to love Him, and that some individuals, starting with satan, actually do decide to truly and freely hate God. It is not exactly a rational decision to hate God, but rather a change of heart against God and Truth, and should one desire such a thing, nobody, not even God can stop a person from doing it. Sad reality is that being evil cannot lead to anything positive, but astonishingly, those who are evil choose to not care about it. So, one cannot end up being evil by accident, or by making an error -- God who is All-Caring would not allow that; it is rather a deliberate, conscious and permanent moving of one's entire will and person towards evil. So, the existence of evil should never trouble us to a point where we lose hope in God's Help; this is exactly what evil wants, and why wouldn't it, since that's its sole preoccupation? So, evil must be treated with indifference as The Fathers teach.

#28 Aidan Kimel

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 03:23 PM

"This raises an interesting question, which I once put to a Greek archbishop at the beginning of a hour-hour car journey, in the hope that it would help while away the time. If it is possible that the devil, who must surely be a very lonely and unhappy person, may eventually repent and be saved, why do we never pray for him? To my disappointment (for I could not at the moment think of other topics of conversation), the archbishop settled the matter with a sharp and brief rejoinder: 'Mind your own business.'"

— Met. Kallistos Ware, The Inner Kingdom

#29 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 03:32 PM

There is this continuing perception problem, most prominent among Protestants, that if only I explain it right, people will simply see the error of their ways and accept Christ, I mean, what other possible response could there be? Go to Heaven or Burn in Hell, seems like an obvious choice right?

They forget that there are people out there who say "better to rule in hell than serve in Heaven!" There are those who simply refuse to acknowledge that they sin, that there is any need to change who they are. There are those who simply don't want to put in the time and effort necessary because "easy is the way ..."

The bishop is wise. I haven't finished MY race, now is not the time for me to worry whether or not satan will finish his. But then again, perhaps he has already "finished" his race at this point. If you decide to quit running, you are "finished", yes?

Herman the not quite finished yet Pooh

#30 James Kiricov

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 09:06 AM

Not sure on the others, but as I understand it, Origen merely wondered about if that would be possible, and it was taken to be his positive stand which I don't think it was. I think it's ok to wonder about such things, that is what we are doing now. It would take a incredible amount of Love for such a thing and I honestly do not know if that is even possible. I am not overly concerned with such matters as I place my trust in God that every thing will be done fairly and justly.

#31 Ilaria

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:25 AM

Though I totally agree that there is no point for us, the way we are, minding about the possible saving of the demons, I would like to emphasize shortly a story from the Desert Fathers: in a monastery, a certain nun had this obedience: to ring the bells for the matins; however, a demon mocked her several times, ringing the bells randomly; so, once she stood there to see, and when he appeared she tied him up! furthermore, she made him say "God have mercy"; at the moment he succeeded, suddenly turned the demon into an angel and fled to Heaven.
I thought that God, in His great mercy, revealed to us this story, for our mindful minds, to know that for Him everything is possible!!!

#32 Isaac Crabtree

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 08:37 PM

Yes, but where is this story from? A reliable thing or simply a parable told to say to us not to despair?
Also, it seems to me that pondering about whether Satan will be saved means that we think in our hearts that we have it pretty much "made in the shade" with our own salvation. If after all, Lucifer, Beelzebub, the Serpent and Leader of Demons is going to get an 11th Hour Pardon, then Steve the computer programmer who drinks too much and hits his girlfriend doesn't have a thing to worry about, and far less does the average Orthodox Christian.

#33 IoanC

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 08:17 AM

The story is definitely made up. It's supposed to emphasize what the demons would have to do in order to repent; it is even funny because it also reveals their absurd stubbornness. Demons don't repent, it's not that they can't, it's that they don't want to. There is a canon against those who believe the devil can (does/will) repent -- an anathema.

#34 Ilaria

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 01:07 PM

The story is indeed from the Desert Fathers, I have no time now to give the exact details but I know also that Fr Cleopa did mention it - he had a word about a patience and obedience and he emphasized the patience of the nun, I hardly believe that fr Cleopa would speak about made up stories...

#35 IoanC

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:13 AM

The story is indeed from the Desert Fathers, I have no time now to give the exact details but I know also that Fr Cleopa did mention it - he had a word about a patience and obedience and he emphasized the patience of the nun, I hardly believe that fr Cleopa would speak about made up stories...


Of course, Fr. Cleopa said it as a made-up story, else he'd be anathema. Why wouldn't you believe Fr. Cleopa would say made-up stories? He'd routinely say funny things and parables. We need to think outside of the box a bit, or else we fall pray to the spirit of over-correctness.

#36 Isaac Crabtree

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:23 PM

I am with Mr. Ioan on this. The story conveys truth even if not factually true. However, the truth of the story is not about how demons will be saved or that it's really easy to live like a demon and then ask God for mercy later on. The truth is about how merciful God is, how patient, and how absurdly stubborn the devils are. God holds no grudges, and His mercy endures forever. Even His "anger" is the love of a parent, His "wrath" our own refusal to love Him, and the effects that result.

I have another story like this one, perhaps also from the desert fathers. I read it awhile ago and it goes something like this:

A hermit had defeated the demon who had come to attack him, and had bound him with the Sign of the Cross. The foul demon begged to be let go, but the hermit insisted first that the demon sing the song it had used to glorify God in Heaven. The demon refused, saying that he would not do it, and besides that the ascetic could not bear to hear it for long, so powerful as it was, before he would die. The ascetic persisted, and finally the demon began to sing it, first softly with hesitation, trying to remember, but gradually it became surer and more and more powerful. By the end, the demon had once again been transfigured back into the angel he once had been, but the ascetic had died from hearing the glorious power of such a heavenly song.

If someone remembers the source of this, I'd appreciate knowing it.

#37 IoanC

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:49 AM

I am with Mr. Ioan on this. The story conveys truth even if not factually true. However, the truth of the story is not about how demons will be saved or that it's really easy to live like a demon and then ask God for mercy later on. The truth is about how merciful God is, how patient, and how absurdly stubborn the devils are. God holds no grudges, and His mercy endures forever. Even His "anger" is the love of a parent, His "wrath" our own refusal to love Him, and the effects that result.

I have another story like this one, perhaps also from the desert fathers. I read it awhile ago and it goes something like this:

A hermit had defeated the demon who had come to attack him, and had bound him with the Sign of the Cross. The foul demon begged to be let go, but the hermit insisted first that the demon sing the song it had used to glorify God in Heaven. The demon refused, saying that he would not do it, and besides that the ascetic could not bear to hear it for long, so powerful as it was, before he would die. The ascetic persisted, and finally the demon began to sing it, first softly with hesitation, trying to remember, but gradually it became surer and more and more powerful. By the end, the demon had once again been transfigured back into the angel he once had been, but the ascetic had died from hearing the glorious power of such a heavenly song.

If someone remembers the source of this, I'd appreciate knowing it.



According to Romanian Elder Cleopa Ilie who told this story, it is from a book called Evergetinos that this story was taken from.
Here is a link about this book: http://easternorthod...vergetinos.html




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