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Genesis literally


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#21 Yuri Zharikov

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 03:55 PM

Now, it seems to me that all of these kinds of factors are also in play in Genesis. Why wouldn't they be?


There is nothing in your post I would disagree with. I fact I am in full absolute agreement with you. The only point I have been trying to make all along, is that for somethintg to be a type of something else (antitype) both have to be real. Exodus - Baptism, Copper Serpent - Christ, Moses with his arms stretched - Cross, Burning Bush - the Mother of God, etc. Is not it how it works? I thought that was the reason atheists have always tried to discredit the historical reality of the events described in the New and Old Testaments. You are given the type first, which you may not understand, a storm, and then God reveals you the inner meaning of it - the state of your soul, the fear of dying, etc, yet the type, the strom is still real. It would not be an overliterization to take a stom on the sea for what it is, a strom. Am I wrong? The other point that I find critical, at least for myself, is to work out the proper type-antitype relationship when it comes to the Bible. So I feel much more confortable with simply relying of what the fathers have to say about this than what it seems to me, for quite frankly my soul is in a stormy state all the time and I reasonably doubt I can always see things for what they are when it comes to the Holy Writ.

#22 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 04:13 PM

There is nothing in your post I would disagree with. I fact I am in full absolute agreement with you. The only point I have been trying to make all along, is that for somethintg to be a type of something else (antitype) both have to be real.


Why? Does there have to be a REAL Prodigal Son for this parable to be of value? When the Lord told us about the Publican and the Pharisee, was He describing an actual incident He saw in the Temple? If not, should we simply disregard it? Did a real landowner actually let out a vineyard to people who killed his son? If not does it teach us nothing?

Little thoughts from a bear of little brain.

Herman the Pooh

#23 Yuri Zharikov

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 04:27 PM

I think we have been through this already 2 or 3 times. Owen addresses this in his latest post. What you are describing are parables intended to convey a moral (or spiritual message). What I was taking about is the type - antitype relationship where a type pre-figures and predicts its antitype, which fullfills it in real terms; i gave examples of that relationship. A parable does not pre-figure anything... if the prodigal son and Lazarus were real figures they could be types, but they are parable figures.

#24 Yuri Zharikov

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 04:40 PM

I will try to re-phrase this. We can speak about a fulfilment of a prophecy when the prophecy was actually made. We look at the Lord on the Cross and the serpent in the desert and understand that the serpent was a prophecy, a prefiguration which was fulfilled in Christ. If we looked at Christ and then invented a story about the serpent it would be a parable, intended to symbolically convey the meaning of the crucifiction. These are just two different things and we are talking about them as if they are the same.

#25 Owen Jones

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 02:13 AM

I saw "Expelled" tonight and it is entertaining, which is important, and effective in one sense: that there are highly intelligent, highly educated people who question the basic tenets of Darwinism. There are several arguments used employed and points made:

1. Intelligent Design
2. Darwinism inevitably leads to atheism and all of the problems derived therefrom (but mostly political ones).
3. That Darwinism was not the only precondition to Naziism, but it was a necessary one.
3. That there is outright persecution of any and all academic dissent from the Darwinist Orthodoxy
4. That once there is a break or fracture in the wall (that is likened to the Berlin Wall) the thing is going to come tumbling down, because most biologists will privately admit that their discipline is a shambles.
5. Dawkins is an absolute idiot.

It steers away from a strictly religious creationist argument.

#26 Owen Jones

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 07:24 PM

I saw the documentary in a local movie theater in Atlanta




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