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'Dialogue with a Persian', by Manuel II Paleologus


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#1 Mina Mounir

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 05:37 PM

peace,

I was looking for an English translation of the dialogue " Dialogue Held With A Certain Persian, the Worthy Mouterizes, in Anakara of Galatia " which was between the Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus and a persian Muslim.
it is the dialogue which Pope Benedict XVI used in his famous lecture in Berlin.

thanks
XC Anesti.
Mina

#2 Michael Stickles

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 08:00 PM

All I've found mention of are German translations, with the earliest being from 1966. Here are the references:

The controversial statement ("Show me that Mohammed brought anything new: you will find nothing, but bad and inhuman, for instance what he states by ordering his faith to be imposed by sword") is taken from the seventh chapter of a book which is composed of 26 chapters.

This seventh book was edited in 1966 by Th. Khoury in Sources Chretiennes 115, and, it seems, it is from this edition that Pope took this statement, since he quotes Th. Khoury. The entire Greek text was edited by E. Trapp in 1966 in the Wiener Byzantinische Studien. A revised edition is being done by K. Forstel in the le Corpus islamo-christianum, series graeca. A German translation of chapters 1, 2, 5, 6 and 7 has been published by R. Senoner in 2003 in Wien.

- Ergo te Lina, article in Ovi Magazine.

Of the total number of 26 conversations (διάλεξις – Khoury translates this as “controversy”) in the dialogue (“Entretien”), T. Khoury published the 7th “controversy” with footnotes and an extensive introduction on the origin of the text, on the manuscript tradition and on the structure of the dialogue, together with brief summaries of the “controversies” not included in the edition; the Greek text is accompanied by a French translation: “Manuel II Paléologue, Entretiens avec un Musulman. 7e Controverse”, Sources Chrétiennes n. 115, Paris 1966. In the meantime, Karl Förstel published in Corpus Islamico-Christianum (Series Graeca ed. A. T. Khoury and R. Glei) an edition of the text in Greek and German with commentary: “Manuel II. Palaiologus, Dialoge mit einem Muslim”, 3 vols., Würzburg-Altenberge 1993-1996. As early as 1966, E. Trapp had published the Greek text with an introduction as vol. II of Wiener byzantinische Studien.

- From the blog Baudelaire (text is from the footnotes in the linked blog entry)

I haven't found any other sources that mention any other translations or editions. Admittedly, my search wasn't exhaustive, but if an English translation existed and had been mentioned online I think it would have appeared among the search results I've looked at.

In Christ,
Mike

#3 Mina Mounir

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 08:40 PM

Thanks Mike for your search.

#4 Roger Pearse

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 05:00 PM

I'm interested in this text as well, and I've ordered the French edition/translation.

I might be willing to make an English translation, if there was sufficient interest. Would people buy such a thing, do you think?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

#5 Mina Mounir

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 05:09 PM

yes sure .. atleast now after Pope Benedict's lecture.
but any way, until u translate it ... I'd ask from u to send us here a detailed post about its content ...
et merci d'avance ( ps. I don't know french :D )

#6 M.C. Steenberg

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 10:40 AM

I'm interested in this text as well, and I've ordered the French edition/translation.

I might be willing to make an English translation, if there was sufficient interest. Would people buy such a thing, do you think?

All the best,

Roger Pearse


I would, so you've pre-sold at least one copy!

I rather suspect the audience would be small; though it would likely be of interest to many a Byzantinist.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

#7 Roger Pearse

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 02:29 PM

I would, so you've pre-sold at least one copy!

I rather suspect the audience would be small; though it would likely be of interest to many a Byzantinist.

INXC, Dcn Matthew


I've got the text, and will work on it sometime. Probably early next year.

#8 Mina Mounir

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 11:10 PM

I've got the text, and will work on it sometime. Probably early next year.

great !
waiting for it ,
thanks

#9 Roger Pearse

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 10:36 AM

I've translated the first 18 chapters and it is here:

http://www.tertullia...ogue7_trans.htm

Unfortunately I got too bored to do the rest, and I don't think I will ever get to it. So I thought I'd upload what I *had* managed to do.

#10 Mina Mounir

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 07:14 AM

thanks so much !

#11 Fady Samir

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 01:40 PM

I wish there would be an English link for the dialogue between St.John of Damascus and a Muslim...
(sorry if my post seems irrelevant to the topic , but I totally agree that Christians in Islamic countries would benefit from the christian - muslim dialogues since we experience such events in our daily life)
Thanks Mr.Roger for your effort....
Christ bless you
IC XC NI KA
Fady

#12 Paul Cowan

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 11:10 PM

Dear Roger,

I don't kow if you are still around, but I appreciate greatly your translating of this document. If you are of the mind for it, I for one would appreciate reading the concluding text if you are able. Thank you

Paul

#13 Roger Pearse

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 07:43 PM

Dear Roger,

I don't kow if you are still around, but I appreciate greatly your translating of this document. If you are of the mind for it, I for one would appreciate reading the concluding text if you are able. Thank you

Paul


I seem to be subscribed to this thread, so I saw your response just now.

Thanks for your kind words! I wish the whole work were online in English, in truth. But I just got so *bored*, and no-one much seemed interested.

I could certainly look at the last page of dialogue 7. But if I recall correctly it mostly consisted of "let's meet again and talk some more tomorrow" stuff, leading into dialogue 8. What sort of thing were you looking for?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

#14 Paul Cowan

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 02:54 AM

Hi Roger,

Sorry to "drag" you back into this. :)

I don't know I am looking for anything in particular; but perhaps the end of the story. I guess in my twisted self righteous brain, I am hoping the elder will "get the best of" the Persians and have the last say and everyone converts and we all live happily ever after. But I seriously doubt that is how the story ended. Please don't take my request as one to continue a boring subject. but if any literature is to be put online as you have done, someone has to translate the work. I read earlier in this thread Fr. Irenei offered a prepurchase for your work, I am sure if this were published, many more would as well. Just food for thought.

Thank you again for the work you have already done.

Paul

#15 Roger Pearse

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 07:42 AM

Ah I see. I think that must be at the end of dialogue 24, which I don't have. I agree, that would be interesting, as would the starting pages which presumably give context.

Maybe one day!




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