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Freemasonry and the Church


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#21 Mark Harris

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:11 PM

I should also add that the swearing in of a US President is based on the Master Mason ceremony as George Washington was a keen Freemason and many US military units in the war of Independence were aligned with a Masonic Lodge. And as I recall form somewhere else on Monachos many organisations have borrowed symbolism and allegory form Christianity but that does not mean it is anti Christian or satanic.

#22 John Konstantin

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:27 PM

You were clearly only a low degree in the Masons Mark. I suspect as you would have progressed you would have been more privy to more information and 'secrets'. The occult nature of the higher degrees is almost a matter of public record.

#23 Ryan

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:38 PM

I've heard from a bona fide occultist that, while the Masons are occult in origin, the organization today has been pretty much stripped of esoteric content (though the symbolism remains) and it really is just an old boys' network now. People who really want to join occult fraternities go to other groups now. (Which is not to say that it is now OK for Orthodox Christians to be in the Masons.)

#24 Mark Harris

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:45 PM

Whilst I was a lowly Mason if there is PUBLIC record of it I would also be aware of it and I am not aware of the public record of any occult practices that your refer to, heresay yes and speculation from people outside of it yes, but the so called secrets are simply revelations of more allegory demonstrated with more symbolism. And I reiterate this is not a religion, never attempted to be seen as a religion and never treated as one.

#25 Christina M.

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 05:02 PM

What do you guys think about conspiracy theories like this: http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=5145
Do you think it's possible that it was intentional? Are the masons that powerful?

#26 John Konstantin

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 05:04 PM

heresay yes and speculation from people outside of it yes,


Not quite, most of the information that went public was from ex-masons, some of high rank. No doubt you would ascertain that they had an axe to grind. Everything about Freemasony as a Christian makes my flesh crawl, as much as if I was standing outside a Satanic coven. I was approached numerous times about joining when I was an Anglican clergyman and one of those who approached me was of extremely high standing within British society. A nicer chap one couldn't wish to meet. However, when one has even a portion of the Holy Spirit it is extraordinary how it works as an early warning system to those things we should not be party to. Freemasonry being only one of them.

#27 Mark Harris

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 05:24 PM

I wouldn't doubt that there are some Lodges not aligned with good works but people assume that all Lodges are tarred with the same brushes and stories of corruption the occult and scandal are far better copy to sell books and newspapers than stories about the Freemason's Hospital and Charity donations and old boys in their 90s dining out after a a bit of pantomime! Anyway , I am not part of it any more and it is not part of my Theosis.

#28 John Konstantin

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 05:31 PM

The word occult comes from the Latin word occultus (clandestine, hidden, secret), referring to "knowledge of the hidden". Ergo: Freemasonry is occultic.

We all know about the 'good works' of the freemasons as much as we know about the mafia contributions to various Catholic archdiocese. That is not the issue. But as you say, you have moved on and that is a cause for great rejoicing :)

#29 Jake A.

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 06:36 PM

Make no mistake Freemasonry is a religion, not a club.

Freemasonry works like this,

In a certain ritual you are told to spit on a cross depicting Christ, regardless of whether or not you do the deed or refuse, they tell you that you progress. Just like when people get to the higher degrees of Masonry (which is embedded with Islamic symbolism, as opposed to some of the lower Egyptian ones, you are offered to join the Luciferic brotherhood, if you refuse, that means you passed the test, if you accept, you join

Theosophy (Helena Blavatsky) and Freemasonry are identical, both are religious movements. Masons are brainwashed into thinking it's not a religion.

#30 Mark Harris

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 06:49 PM

Make no mistake Freemasonry is a religion, not a club.

Freemasonry works like this,

In a certain ritual you are told to spit on a cross depicting Christ, regardless of whether or not you do the deed or refuse, they tell you that you progress. Just like when people get to the higher degrees of Masonry (which is embedded with Islamic symbolism, as opposed to some of the lower Egyptian ones, you are offered to join the Luciferic brotherhood, if you refuse, that means you passed the test, if you accept, you join

Theosophy (Helena Blavatsky) and Freemasonry are identical, both are religious movements. Masons are brainwashed into thinking it's not a religion.


utter rubbish, unless you have first hand experience of this, the sort of rubbish that got the Templars terminated.

#31 Nick Katich

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 07:19 PM

Not quite, most of the information that went public was from ex-masons, some of high rank. No doubt you would ascertain that they had an axe to grind. Everything about Freemasony as a Christian makes my flesh crawl, as much as if I was standing outside a Satanic coven. I was approached numerous times about joining when I was an Anglican clergyman and one of those who approached me was of extremely high standing within British society. A nicer chap one couldn't wish to meet. However, when one has even a portion of the Holy Spirit it is extraordinary how it works as an early warning system to those things we should not be party to. Freemasonry being only one of them.


Albert Pike was not an ex-mason. He was of the highest rank of a practicing mason when he publish his book. His theology of Lucifer (the God of Light) pervades the entire work.

#32 Mark Harris

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 08:01 PM

Albert Pike was not an ex-mason. He was of the highest rank of a practicing mason when he publish his book. His theology of Lucifer (the God of Light) pervades the entire work.


He also asserts that Masonry is not a religion and I understand he was also Scottish Rite so not in fact a Free Mason. Also the 19th century was a time when many crackpot ideas emerged about the occult world and the spirit world and many conspiracies as to who orchestrated world politics particularly including Germany the East in Russia and Freemasons (like Templars in their time) with cross border organisation and non denominational alegiance were easy prayer for politicians and organised religions to attack and be blamed for their own problems , errors and inabilities to rule.

#33 Archimandrite Irenei

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 08:39 PM

Please, everyone: this forum is for the discussion Orthodoxy in her patristic and monastic heritage. These side issues really aren't appropriate to this venue.

#34 Mark Harris

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 09:37 PM

Forgive me for aiding the diversion.
To get it back on track I see the only way to answer the original question properly is if there is within the Monachos community an Orthodox Christian who has had first hand experience and at a senior level (high degree) within Freemasonry itself. Anything other than this will be informed or misinformed opinion.
In Christ
Mark

#35 Nick Katich

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 12:21 AM

I understand he [Albert Pike] was also Scottish Rite so not in fact a Free Mason. .


Scottish and York Rite are two different paths to higher degrees. You need be be a third degree "Master Mason" to advance to these higher levels of "illuminations". Therefore, you statement that he was not in fact a Free Mason is incorrect. Check his bios all over the web.

#36 Nick Katich

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 12:24 AM

Forgive me for aiding the diversion.
To get it back on track I see the only way to answer the original question properly is if there is within the Monachos community an Orthodox Christian who has had first hand experience and at a senior level (high degree) within Freemasonry itself. Anything other than this will be informed or misinformed opinion.
In Christ
Mark


Mark: Forgive me but why does an Orthodox Christian need anything other than the Body of Christ?

#37 Jason H.

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 01:40 AM

I've been reading these posts and confused as to why this subject is brought up...Has there been an influx of freemasons I don't know about?

#38 Christina M.

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 02:18 AM

I've been reading these posts and confused as to why this subject is brought up...Has there been an influx of freemasons I don't know about?


It's actually surprising how many Orthodox laypeople and even priests (I will not mention further) are Freemasons. For example, my uncle was a well-respected Orthodox priest, but he was a mason.

Fr Athanasios Mitilinaios tells an amazing story of when he was a teenager in Greece. His neighbor, a teenage friend named Christos, had died unexpectedly, and Christos' illiterate mother gave away her son's books to their friends and neighbors. She gave Athanasios a book, and it happened to be about Freemasonry. On the top-left corner of every page was a strange symbol, and underneath the symbol was written "If the Christians knew what this symbol meant, they would burn us alive!" Athanasios was shocked that his neighbor friend, who also went to the same Orthodox Church, was a secret mason, so he brought the book to school to show his best friend (who also went to the same Church). He pulls the book out and shows his friend, saying: "Can you believe what Christos was reading? Look at this book! He was a mason!" When his friend saw the book, he violently grabbed it out of Athanasios' hands, and took off with it. In other words, his best friend was a secret freemason as well.

This story is written in a newly published book, a collection of Fr. Athanasios' homilies on the Book of Revelation.

#39 Archimandrite Irenei

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 03:58 AM

To all, and to repeat an earlier point: this forum is for the discussion of the patristic heritage. This thread thus far has no bearing on our scope. Please only contribute further posts to this thread if they directly bear upon the patristic legacy of the Church.

#40 Kosta

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:20 AM

The problem with freemasonry is that it has influenced events in the church in the most uncanonical ways. If it wasnt for freemasonry Patriarch Meletios Metaxakis of sorry memory would never have been installed as EP. He trampled upon the canons, and is responsible for the jurisdictional mess in America, the calendar controversy, and is even responsible for planting the false teaching on apostolic succession. He is the father of all the problems in Orthodoxy for the past 500 years.
He is the reason why many Orthodox no longer recognize right-belief as being a major component to laying on of hands in ordination. As patriarch of Alexandria he issued a statement recognizing anglican orders. It was strongly worded that they indeed have legitimate holy orders yet right bbelief as a pre-requisite was missing in this apologetic for anglican ordination, yet many ecumenists still rely on it.

But i will show why freemasonry is incompatible with Orthodoxy. Here is an excerpt from the freemason funeral service for Orthodox christians, as found on aserb, they even consider st John the baptis to bbe the patron saint of freemasonry (serbian masonic lodge):

MASTER: On this scroll, (hold up scroll) we have inscribed the name and Masonic record of our Brother. His spirit has returned whence it came.

(Deposit in casket alongside body.)

This lambskin or white leathern apron worn by our Brother (point to apron) is an emblem of innocence, and the badge of a Freemason. It is more ancient than the Golden Fleece or the Roman Eagle; more honorable than the Star and Garter, or any order instituted by man.

This evergreen (hold up to display) is an emblem of our faith in the immortality of the soul. It is a symbol of that immortal part within us which shall continue to exist beyond physical death.
Farewell, my Brother. '

As you can see it claims its symbolic apron is more ancient than the roman eagle. The double headed roman eagle is a symbol of our Church, likewise the Church is considered one of those orders instituted by man. They believe this lambskin is more honorable than the cross. That there fraternity more honorable than the church.




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