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Orthodox clothing


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#1 Troy Duker

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 03:27 AM

I am curious to know if there has ever been any distinct Orthodox clothing or outside wear. The reason I ask is because I was thinking about the Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, etc. whose adherents all dress in some distinct way.

#2 Paul Cowan

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 03:44 AM

We wear crosses around our necks.
We dress modestly to not draw attention to ourselves nor to "fit in" with the modern day fads.
We groom ourselves in the same way.

Our lives are to imitate Christ, not Bon Jovi.

There is nothing wrong and for all practical purposes preferred with dressing in our daily lives as we are requested in a monastery.

Clergy have a different standard than lay persons.

Paul

#3 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:28 AM

Who is Bon Jovi?

#4 Troy Duker

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:48 AM

Bon Jovi is a rock singer.

#5 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:34 PM

In the US there have been cases of recent converts dressing like Russian peasants. This is not a requirement, but merely a misplaced sense of nostalgia. Orthodox Christians should dress modestly, should not be ostentatious, but there really is no prescribed headgear, "gang colors", or footwear. Do try to avoid spandex and pastel leisure suits but I cannot cite the specific canon off-hand.

We do generally wear a cross on a chain, but this is generally worn under the clothing unless you are a priest or the singer Madonna who really shouldn't be wearing one anyway, but I digress...

Orthodoxy crosses many cultural lines, with little in common except our Faith. The People of God know no single earthly fashion beyond modesty.

Or so it seems to this bear of very little brain.

Herman the Pooh

#6 Nina

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 01:40 PM

We dress modestly to not draw attention to ourselves

Paul


Speak for yourself :P

#7 Alice

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 02:47 PM

Speak for yourself :P


Nina, I JUST LOVE YOU!! ;-)

Alice :-)

#8 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 06:22 PM

It is a widely-held belief among churchgoers in Russia that the man's tie (is it 'necktie' in the US?) is a masonic device which echoes the noose used by Judas Iscariot to hang himself. It is very noticeable in Russia that men do not wear ties in church, and some will not wear them at all. A cousin of my wife wears a traditional 'rubashka' for this reason. He gave me one. It is white with very colourful embroidery but I do not wear it.

#9 Father David Moser

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:13 PM

It is a widely-held belief among churchgoers in Russia that the man's tie (is it 'necktie' in the US?) is a masonic device which echoes the noose used by Judas Iscariot to hang himself.


St John of San Francisco used to refer to neckties in just that fashion - as a "masonic noose" and refused to allow altar servers to wear such under their stichari

Fr David Moser

#10 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:13 PM

You have to wonder about any job that requires you to put a noose around your neck every morning. But then again, ever see those fancy lanyard things that military staff officers generally wear? The lanyard has a spike at one end and a noose at the other. The basic idea is that if you ever do anything to disgrace your unit, you are to drive the spike into a convenient beam or tree branch and promptly hang yourself. I don't think it is a requirement anymore, but it's the thought that counts....

When I was on Shore Patrol duty in the US Navy, the uniform included a tie, but it was required to be a "clip-on" so that drunks being taken into custody could not grab it and use it to choke you! Archbishop John of Chicago (OCA) of blessed memory also considered ties masonic and never let his altar servers wear them, that is why I don't generally wear a tie to church to this day, although I've worn one at work for many many years. I can tie a perfect tie knot with my eyes closed.

Nice thing about being Orthodox and all that "slave" stuff, at least we don't have to worry about being slaves to fashion!

Herman the fit-to-be-tied Pooh

#11 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 12:36 AM

Good indeed not to be tied to the tide of fashion! You can get away with wearing a rubashka in Russia but not, I think, in England. But I must say I do avoid wearing a tie as much as I can. Old Rite men, of course, would never wear a tie, and the men do wear a rubashka, and the women traditional headscarves, shawls and voluminous long skirts. I had an email today from my Old Rite priest friend inviting us to see him after I arrive, so no tie then. May be I'll put on my rubashka!

#12 Troy Duker

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 12:41 AM

This belief about the neck-tie is interesting, considering that I enjoy wearing them and do wear them to the Divine Liturgy quite often. I know amongst the Mennonites that it is considered fancy and flashy to wear a neck-tie to services. I visited a conservative Mennonite congregation and most of the men had on flannel, button down type shirts, long sleeves for the most part. The women varied, some looked like they stepped out of the 1930's and others wore stylish jean skirts and the like, with a simple head-covering.

#13 Paul Cowan

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 03:53 AM

If the King of kings and Lord of lords and God of all creation were to visibly be by your side 24/7, how would you dress? behave? talk? act? Knowing He is there invisibly should be no different. He has seen it all, but would He be embarassed to take you home to meet His mother?

Paul

#14 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 10:20 AM

Cleanliness, modesty, and on Sunday, our "best clothes" in honour of our Christ.

In the past people would buy new clothes once a year during Lent, just before Easter Sunday. These new clothes would then be worn on Easter Sunday and would have to last for the whole year. Also women and men thoroughly cleaned everything they could get their hands on during Lent. This was the time houses were painted, everything that could be salvaged and made new kept, things that could no longer be renewed thrown away or burnt, everything made new and special in preparation for the Lord's Resurrection.

A thorough cleansing of the human mind, body, and everything that people owned.

Can you imagine how special everyone and everything felt at Easter?

Effie

#15 Nina

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 02:51 PM

If the King of kings and Lord of lords and God of all creation were to visibly be by your side 24/7, how would you dress? behave? talk? act? Knowing He is there invisibly should be no different. He has seen it all, but would He be embarassed to take you home to meet His mother?

Paul


I think that although I stink because I stay with pigs, He still opens his arms and receives me as He receives all the prodigal children of His.

#16 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 06:11 PM

because I stay with pigs


What do you mean, Nina?

#17 Nina

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 01:23 AM

What do you mean, Nina?


Wasn't the prodigal son eating with the pigs? Isn't the prodigal son a symbol of a sinner? I have read from the Fathers that pigs were symbols of the sins he was indulging in. Sins also have stench. This is pretty much the idea.

#18 Father Serafim

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 01:56 AM

I have never heard of the tie being called a Masonic Noose! I understood that men/boys don't wear ties under their stichars, because the ties are considered unnecessary ornamentation. This rule also applies to wristwatches.

Before donning the cassock, I always wore a tie, - my regimental, old school and RSCM (chorister's tie). For the record, I am not going to argue with a saint! Just a thought..wearing chotki on the wrist seem to fit in here somewhere.

#19 John Litster

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 06:20 AM

I hope it's clear that whole idea of the necktie being some sort of Masonic emblem is superstitious nonsense, and the fact that St. John of blessed memory happened to subscribe to it doesn't make it any less so. In all this we must remember that St. John was human, and had his own foibles, dislikes, maybe even ignorances (Hasn't every true saint said the same about himself or herself?) As it is, the modern necktie has a quite well-attested history, going back to the cravats and neckcloths worn by European troops in the 17th and 18th centuries. There is absolutely no evidence that it arose among the Freemasons, though Officers of the Lodges did wear a variety of "jewels" and insignia, denoting Masonic ranks such as grand master, treasurer, chaplain, etc., which were worn by ribbons around the neck. (R. Macoy, The History of Freemasonry, 1871).

But emulating Judas? Even for the Freemasons, this seems a bit of a stretch...

And please forgive the tasteless pun I just committed.

Edited by John Litster, 10 December 2008 - 06:23 AM.
Adding note


#20 Father David Moser

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 02:33 PM

the fact that St. John of blessed memory happened to subscribe to it doesn't make it any less so. In all this we must remember that St. John was human, and had his own foibles, dislikes, maybe even ignorances (Hasn't every true saint said the same about himself or herself?)


Or perhaps he just has a sense of humor?

Fr David Moser




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