Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Hierarchical betrothal and coronation services

wedding hierarchical betrothal crowning coronation

  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Peter Simko

Peter Simko

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 26 December 2013 - 05:10 AM

Friends,

 

Christ is born!

 

God-willing, I will be getting married at my home parish in less than a month from today.  One of the seemingly endless things I still have left to accomplish--with the Lord's help and by your holy prayers--is to prepare a wedding service book with names and such, and which replicates the service book for my jurisdiction.  I have those standard texts available, but there is a small issue.  There is a possibility that a bishop will be presiding, alongside the presbyters and a deacon.  I cannot find any written example of how the service is adjusted for this.  I have watched a few videos and seen some differences (answering the questions with "Reverend Master" instead of "Reverend Father", the Gospel Book being placed over the couple's head at the cathedra outside the Altar), but if anyone knows of where I can acquire such texts or rubrics, I would be quite appreciative.  I do trust that the bishop knows what to do, but having this in the booklet I am creating would be, for lack of a better term, nice.

 

A blessed Nativity to my NC friends, and to the OC ones, finish the race with faith and love!  =D



#2 Richard A. Downing

Richard A. Downing

    Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 240 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 26 December 2013 - 09:49 AM

My experience with Bishops and the 'unusual' services, is that they refer to whatever book (book of needs?) is to hand that seems authoritative. In English Hapgood is often used, but it has nothing about a Hierarch at a Betrothal or Crowning.  I would suspect, however, (possibly heretical statement follows:) that bishops make it up as they go along.  If you document what you have seen other bishops of your jurisdiction do in videos, then you will probably be doing His Grace a favour!

 

Prayers for you and your betrothed.

Richard.



#3 Peter Simko

Peter Simko

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 26 December 2013 - 02:46 PM

Thank you Richard.

I have yet to find a full video from my jurisdiction, but I have nevertheless stumbled upon some interesting things.  For instance, a wedding in Sofia has immediately after the partaking from the common cup, a piece of bread dipped in what appears to be oil given to the bride and bridegroom by the presiding bishop.  Never heard about that before; perhaps it is merely a local custom in Bulgaria.  I will keep exploring for now.



#4 Olga

Olga

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 2,821 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:22 PM

Thank you Richard.

I have yet to find a full video from my jurisdiction, but I have nevertheless stumbled upon some interesting things.  For instance, a wedding in Sofia has immediately after the partaking from the common cup, a piece of bread dipped in what appears to be oil given to the bride and bridegroom by the presiding bishop.  Never heard about that before; perhaps it is merely a local custom in Bulgaria.  I will keep exploring for now.

 

I have attended three or four weddings in recent years where a bishop served, and I do not recall any difference in the way the service was conducted when compared to when a priest is conducting it, nor do I recall seeing a hierarchical version in any service books. The dipping of a piece of bread you describe must be a local custom, I have never seen it in any of the Greek, Russian, Serbian or Belorussian weddings I've attended over the years.



#5 Rdr Andreas

Rdr Andreas

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,028 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 27 December 2013 - 11:59 PM

Like Olga, I have attended several marriages at which a bishop officiated, and there was no difference in the form of service.



#6 Richard A. Downing

Richard A. Downing

    Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 240 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:17 AM

Just for the avoidance of doubt: All the services in your diocese are what your Bishop says they are.  There is no right way, or wrong way, just the Bishop's way.



#7 Rdr Andreas

Rdr Andreas

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,028 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:01 AM

Just for the avoidance of doubt: All the services in your diocese are what your Bishop says they are.  There is no right way, or wrong way, just the Bishop's way.

 

I do not think that this can be right. A bishop is not a law unto himself. He is under the authority of and is obedient to his patriarch (or archbishop as the case may be) and the Holy Synod of his Church, and to the metropolitans and archbishops of his Church and indeed to his fellow bishops. He is further bound by the canons of the Church and Holy Tradition.



#8 Richard A. Downing

Richard A. Downing

    Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 240 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:12 AM

I do not think that this can be right. A bishop is not a law unto himself. He is under the authority of and is obedient to his patriarch (or archbishop as the case may be) and the Holy Synod of his Church, and to the metropolitans and archbishops of his Church and indeed to his fellow bishops. He is further bound by the canons of the Church and Holy Tradition.

 

All I can tell you is that this is what I have been told by my Late Archbishop.  The Bishops of the Orthodox church are NOT in a hierarchical relationship with their Patriarch. The Patriarch may have the position of Honour, and chairmanship of the Holy Synod, but unlike the Pope of Rome, he does not claim the right to rule his brothers.

 

This is too big a topic for a stolen thread though.  In practical terms, however, if the Bishop says: "do it this way", you do it his way, despite what might be written in your service book.

 

Love, Richard.



#9 Rdr Andreas

Rdr Andreas

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,028 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 29 December 2013 - 12:02 PM

I took my comments from the service for the ordination of a bishop in Hapgood: it is there set forth that he vows to obey his patriarch or archbishop and to abide by the canons and Holy Tradition. Bishops do not have carte blanche to do as they like. The laity are the guardians of the faith and may intervene if a bishop fails to live up to the promises he made at his ordination. Of course, it depends how far 'do it this way' goes: if that way is still consonant with Holy Tradition, that is one thing. If it is wayward, that is another. But I agree, this is deviating from the thread.



#10 Peter Simko

Peter Simko

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 30 December 2013 - 02:22 PM

Fear not, my beloved brothers!  I'll make sure there are plenty of yiayias and babas to keep the bishop in line with the Faith.  =D

Nevertheless, thank you for your responses!



#11 Ilya Zhitomirskiy

Ilya Zhitomirskiy

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 66 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:02 PM

The only difference is that the bishop is vested according to his rank, whether fully or in mantiya, is the celebrant, and blessings are done Hierarchical style with eis polla eti despota. Otherwise, the rest of the service should be the same.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: wedding, hierarchical, betrothal, crowning, coronation

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users