Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

sin? i think so.

sin communion

  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Niko Barounis

Niko Barounis

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:56 AM

Ok, i will give the short version.

 

I am fasting since tuesday to receive this sunday. I know, most ppl dont fast like that, they do a day if most. Well thats not the topic here, i will just say im old school and thats how i do it. back on topic.

 

i have been fasting to receive this sunday and i sined, i dont think i should recive, what do you think?

 

The sin (?) i went into walmart to return some cheep sneekers and upgrade to a better pait from kmart, if thats possible. i should rephrase that, to get a less poopy pair:) yes im having serious $ problems. my refund it going to be $14.86 and i have 14 cent in order to get $15 back. but i intentinally tell the cashier here is 14 cents to make it an even $20. she says no, you get back $15 not $20 and i say, yes thats what i mean. she gives me my refund and i walk away. i look at the $ and receipt in my hand and i realise she gave me $25 back instead of $15, she gave me a twenty and a five, thats $10 more then i should have gotten! i jet out of the store before she realises. in my mind i think abt her getting in trouble but i KNOW walmart wont even mention it, unless shortages occure often to a cashier they wont even say anything, its the cost of doing biz. i used to be a walmart cashier. and im thinking God helped me out so i could buy the better pair of sneekers.... 

 

What is your opinion on what i did, did i sin, should i go to Church and receive? i say no, i say i should continue fasting strictly as punishment and go to Church but not revieve communion.

 

later on in the day i start thinking it was the devil that made me try that and then take the actions i did.

would you agree?

 

I would LOVE to hear from a monk or priest if available. but anyone realy.

tnx



#2 Olga

Olga

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 2,823 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:02 AM

Niko, call your priest and ask for his advice. He knows you better than anyone else on this forum, and therefore will give you better advice than we can.



#3 Niko Barounis

Niko Barounis

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:59 AM

thanks but no, we dnt have a relationship like that, where i ask for advice or even talk other then to say hello and or a quick chat. Olga, you prob would never do what i did but if you did, what would you do?



#4 Olga

Olga

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 2,823 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 July 2014 - 05:39 AM

I would talk to my priest. A major part of every priest's duty and responsibility is to give spiritual advice to his parishioners.



#5 Ilaria

Ilaria

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 170 posts

Posted 04 July 2014 - 05:55 AM

If I were you, I would give the 10$ to a poor and pray for you and for the cashier. If you know that you cannot contact your spiritual father, God knows that as well. So repent before God and listen to your heart - if your heart is at peace, my personal opinion is that you can have communion - with a constricted heart. Communion helps us in fighting with sin, as well. But you have to mention this to your father, at the first confession.



#6 Rdr Andreas

Rdr Andreas

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,028 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:39 AM

Legally, it's theft so the money is not yours to give away. I would return it. The fact that you're asking the question here shows you're uncomfortable with keeping it.



#7 Alice

Alice

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 673 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:39 PM

I would talk to my priest. A major part of every priest's duty and responsibility is to give spiritual advice to his parishioners.

 

Olga:Unfortunately, in the United States, many of our Greek Orthodox parish priests are often so very busy with so many things and people, that it can be very intimidating to approach them on Sundays--if you can even find them after services at the coffee hour.

 

Of course there are many exceptions, such as being in a smaller parish, but in general, their position demands that they wear so many hats as community and religious leaders, that it makes it difficult to approach them for minute spiritual questions that you normally would not want to schedule a specific appointment for.

 

Fortunately, emails have made it easier to approach priests on religious and spiritual matters, especially for people who feel shy about taking up their time, or calling to schedule an appointment.

 

Niko: Perhaps, you can email your priest? I am sure that your parish has a website, and on that website, the Priest's email should be available. In this way, you may also come to be known to him by name, which is always a nice thing, especially when taking Holy Communion in the future. He will tell you what he thinks you should do.  

 

You could also schedule a confession for the future in this way. Your priest, no matter how busy, will be most delighted to do this, and by doing so, you will have gained yourself a spiritual father! 

 

I find that most parish priests, even the most busy, will respond to an email. It is a quick and effective manner of communication, which we are fortunate to have these days.   :)

 

In the meantime, what a spiritual father would probably say is to find a way to give the money back. You might want to go back to Walmart and tell the manager that you realized that the change given you was wrong and that you would like to return it.

 

Be prepared to be looked at like you are an alien! *hehehe*

 

But, please don't let this deter you from contacting your priest by email and introducing yourself and asking him yourself. It is obvious that this is weighing on you and your soul. Trust me, he will be most thrilled to receive an email from a parishioner who cares about  his salvation, rather than the usual community matters that he is bombarded with daily.  :)

 

 (And I assure you that it is nothing to be embarrassed about at all) 

 

In Christ,

Alice


Edited by Alice, 04 July 2014 - 01:54 PM.


#8 Ben Johnson

Ben Johnson

    Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 290 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 July 2014 - 02:01 PM

Return the money and speak with your priest.



#9 Father David Moser

Father David Moser

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 3,581 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member
  • Verified Cleric

Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:30 PM

Niko, only your priest can give you the answer to this question - no one else.  He is the one responsible before God for all those to whom he gives the Holy Mysteries.  If you hide this from him and follow your own self will in this matter, only grief and spiritual harm can result.

 

Fr David Moser



#10 Rdr Andreas

Rdr Andreas

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,028 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:54 PM

What answer can the priest give? He presumably cannot condone theft even on a small scale and by someone who has "$ problems". If Nikos returns the money, he doesn't put the priest on the spot. I know priests are, in a sense, there to be 'put on the spot', but this ought not to relieve a person of their moral and legal obligations of which they are aware.


Edited by Reader Andreas, 04 July 2014 - 04:54 PM.


#11 Niko Barounis

Niko Barounis

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 77 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 July 2014 - 05:35 PM

thanks everyone!

i will either be giving the money to the poor or just placing it in the collection plate at church sunday, what do u think is better?

 

Re: retuning it to walmrt, that wont help, its not abt walmrt loosing $10 or the cashier getting in trouble, she will not get in trouble.  

 

I will not recive this sunday and will continue my fast till next sunday, to receive.

 

when i confess i will def list this.

 

and yes its like Alice says, the priests are not very available, in my church at least, bothering him with this little thing just does not make sence.

 

i learned a lesson and will never act like this again, im sorry for how greedy i was and also repent.

tnx



#12 Alice

Alice

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 673 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 04 July 2014 - 06:52 PM

and yes its like Alice says, the priests are not very available, in my church at least, bothering him with this little thing just does not make sence.

 

I completely understand the Greek American parish experience...if one hasn't lived it, one would not understand.

 

Be well dear Niko,

Alice


Edited by Alice, 04 July 2014 - 06:53 PM.


#13 Effie Ganatsios

Effie Ganatsios

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:09 AM

Niko, I believe that inside you know very well what you have to do. Our conscience is God's voice. God bless you.

effie

Edited by Effie Ganatsios, 05 July 2014 - 03:09 AM.


#14 Jean-Serge

Jean-Serge

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 115 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:08 AM

Return the money to the right owner...Giving a stolen amount to the poors does not erase the sin (see Christian morality by Saint Nikodemus).



#15 Jean-Serge

Jean-Serge

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 115 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:30 AM

I must add that since it is stolen money, the church cannot receive money for sinful activities. If you go to Wal Mart and says there was a mistake, then it will be back to the company that is the real owner. Life for cashiers is not easy: at the end of the day, the manager checks the balance of the day for every cashier. You cashier had a minus 10 dollars balance for which probably she/had been shouted at. He/she might even have been suspected of stoling it. So, I would go quicly back to the store, if possible give it back to the same cashier and if not to another saying that you checked etc, and that you are sure there was a mistake.

 

From Manual of Confession by Saint Nikodemus (page 172)

 

You should place them [thieves] under a rule to return what they took, if they have it, either to the same person from whom thye took it, if they are alive, or to their relatives if they have died. 

 

Giving to the poor is only possible when the victim and gis relatives died. In this case, the victim is well alive Wal-Mart as moral person.



#16 Rdr Andreas

Rdr Andreas

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,028 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:04 PM

the victim is well alive Wal-Mart as moral person.
 


I think you mean a legal person.



#17 Paul Cowan

Paul Cowan

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,064 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:54 PM

I used to be a cashier at a large grocery store. I was held accountable for $2.00 over or short on my register. If I got too many days that were not "perfect" tills, I was written up and ultimately fired. It was not this cashier's fault (well, it was) that you stole the money. Now her job is in jeopardy and you are potentially getting her fired and think how that will affect her ability to now provide food and shelter for her family.

 

You may not think Wal-Mart will miss the $10 and honestly they probably won't in the big scheme of things, but in this job market, an employer can fire an employee at will and now you are hurting another person, not just a corporation.

 

You can't give the money to the church as even the Pharisees would not receive back Judas's blood money in the treasury. You cannot give it to the poor as the old testament tells us to return a man's ox to him if it is found. You must return the money to the store and let the store manager know, it was an "honest" mistake by both you and the cashier and you are returning it to "make it right".

 

I go to Wal-Mart all the time. They are always making mistakes on prices. If you KNOW about the mistake, it is your responsibility to be Christian witness and help them fix the mistake. If they refuse, then it is on them, but you must first make the attempt to fix the problem. 

 

Paul

 

PS: I know the priests usually take at least one day off a week, but there are 5 other days in which you can make an appointment to speak to them. Not just on Sunday. No one should ever do "business" with a priest on Sunday. They are simply pulled in too many directions at once. And I promise they will appreciate. Besides, how can he give proper absolution to your confessions if he does not know you more than just another face in the crowd on Sunday who is trying to avoid talking to him?



#18 Effie Ganatsios

Effie Ganatsios

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:34 AM

Good post Paul.

Effie





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: sin, communion

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users