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Many paths to God


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#41 Bob L.

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 01:55 AM

Probably this topic is inherently offensive to people who are devout Orthodoxy, so I think I should drop it.

 

The question in my opening post was answered - Orthodox theology doesn't allow room for the wierd idea I suggested. So that is that.

 

Thanks for the feedback, everybody. :)



#42 Niko Barounis

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 04:19 AM

Bob L, you are too cerebral. Its not about logic, its about faith. One of the wepons the devil often uses is logic. Good luck to you.



#43 Seraphim of the Midwest

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 06:09 AM

Probably this topic is inherently offensive to people who are devout Orthodoxy, so I think I should drop it.

 

The question in my opening post was answered - Orthodox theology doesn't allow room for the wierd idea I suggested. So that is that.

 

Thanks for the feedback, everybody. :)

No problem Bob.

 

I was hoping to have some dialog on my post.  Once the terms are defined, I think that there remains an answer: While all paths lead to God, if you have not been conformed to the image and likeness of Christ, then you do not participate in the life of the Trinity.

 

Can you get to Christ without Orthodoxy?  Perhaps....



#44 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 08:34 AM

What concerns me, Bob, is that you say you became a member of the Orthodox Church but clearly you have rejected Christ if you mean what you said about Him in your post #13. There is always the possibility of return but your spiritual state is dire and the fate of your soul is in peril. You may have left Christ but He has not left you. Like the Prodigal Son, come to you senses, rise up and return. Without Christ there is only nihilism and nonsense.



#45 Rick H.

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 12:30 PM

I appreciate your use of the term 'real theology.'   Probably just about
all of us here have wondered about what is real theology at one time or another
in our lives.  I know I have wondered what is real theology like I have also
wondered 'what is truth.'
 
In closing, possibly as you already know, I can share that any internet
forums which are sponsored by a fundamentalistic particularisim are not helpful
at all with such questions, they only make things worse or usually cause
resentment or apathy in the end, regardless of which particular group or
tribe one engages with.


#46 Seraphim of the Midwest

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 02:18 PM

Bob L, you are too cerebral. Its not about logic, its about faith. One of the wepons the devil often uses is logic. Good luck to you.

 

I fear this response to Bob L. is harsh.  One may very well struggle with logic and reconciling it with faith.  I suspect the more appropriate term is "reason" rather than "logic" in your statement anyway, since his thoughts are less rigorously mathematical, and he introduced very non-logical phenomena like delusions, hallucinations, and paranoia.

 

However, the bottom line is that, to the one trying to make sense of Christiantiy, one does not need to park their mind at the door.  Rather, they need humility to subordinate their mind, realizing that it is flawed and not only finite, but also a very limited resource at best.  And an undisciplined mind will run amok when it realizes that it is not center stage, because the governing principle in the flesh is pride.

 

We have a more adequate vocabulary, including words such as prelest, pride, vanity, and hubris.

 

The reason why I say the response is harsh is because it fails to recognize the good aspect in what Bob wrote.  Namely, he is at least attempting to be honest.  He has had bad experiences with clergy and has not been stunned by the truth being lived out in a way that can't be denied.  As such, I can relate to him, as I have had similar struggles and seen others' faith destroyed by hypocrisy and false leadership.



#47 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:10 PM

I was well taught when I was told not to be concerned by scandals in the Church - the Church is more than those people in it who perpetrate scandal.



#48 Seraphim of the Midwest

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:23 PM

When Bob is struggling, fortune cookie one liners aren't going to provide much aid/assistance.

 

With all do respect, once you have your life decimated by a bad priest (and/or perhaps a reader who is a lawyer), only then share your parroted pearls of wisdom.  The fact that people who undergo and still remain Orthodox shows the strength of our faith and conviction.  We don't just parrot what we were told or something we read in some book, but that we actually live it and demonstrate through our actions our devotion to the Christ and His Church.



#49 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:46 PM

I quoted what was taught me by a venerable Greek bishop of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. What he said contains wisdom for those with ears to hear.


Edited by Reader Andreas, 24 November 2014 - 08:47 PM.


#50 Olga

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:27 PM

When Bob is struggling, fortune cookie one liners aren't going to provide much aid/assistance.

 

With all do respect, once you have your life decimated by a bad priest (and/or perhaps a reader who is a lawyer), only then share your parroted pearls of wisdom.  The fact that people who undergo and still remain Orthodox shows the strength of our faith and conviction.  We don't just parrot what we were told or something we read in some book, but that we actually live it and demonstrate through our actions our devotion to the Christ and His Church.

 

MidwestSeraphim, snide personal attacks on other forum members are not tolerated here. Please temper your language and tone in the future, or stronger action will be taken.

 

Olga. (forum moderator)



#51 Niko Barounis

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:25 AM

I fear this response to Bob L. is harsh.  One may very well struggle with logic and reconciling it with faith.  I suspect the more appropriate term is "reason" rather than "logic" in your statement anyway, since his thoughts are less rigorously mathematical, and he introduced very non-logical phenomena like delusions, hallucinations, and paranoia.

 

However, the bottom line is that, to the one trying to make sense of Christiantiy, one does not need to park their mind at the door.  Rather, they need humility to subordinate their mind, realizing that it is flawed and not only finite, but also a very limited resource at best.  And an undisciplined mind will run amok when it realizes that it is not center stage, because the governing principle in the flesh is pride.

 

We have a more adequate vocabulary, including words such as prelest, pride, vanity, and hubris.

 

The reason why I say the response is harsh is because it fails to recognize the good aspect in what Bob wrote.  Namely, he is at least attempting to be honest.  He has had bad experiences with clergy and has not been stunned by the truth being lived out in a way that can't be denied.  As such, I can relate to him, as I have had similar struggles and seen others' faith destroyed by hypocrisy and false leadership.

I beleve that you also think too much. I see it in a few "other" Orthodox (this site not so much, thats why i like it better here) forums where people start to debate and disect every liitle aspect of a orthodox subject....as if they will  be able to use "logic" to get closer to God. Quite the reverse happens with this mindset. they are just inflating there ego by showing how much they know abt Orthodoxy. and id like to parrot something also. you can learn the bible inside out and by heart, and you can quoat all the fathers, and all the cannons, but im afraid that will NOT take you any closer to God.



#52 Rick H.

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 02:44 AM

I beleve that you also think too much. I see it in a few "other" Orthodox (this site not so much, thats why i like it better here) forums where people start to debate and disect every liitle aspect of a orthodox subject....as if they will  be able to use "logic" to get closer to God. Quite the reverse happens with this mindset. they are just inflating there ego by showing how much they know abt Orthodoxy. and id like to parrot something also. you can learn the bible inside out and by heart, and you can quoat all the fathers, and all the cannons, but im afraid that will NOT take you any closer to God.

 

What does this have to do with this topic?



#53 Niko Barounis

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 03:17 AM

What does this have to do with this topic?

good point!



#54 Olga

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 03:44 AM

OK, folks, let's put aside the sidetracks, and address the thread topic.






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