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#21 Antonios

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 09:15 AM

Your thoughts?


I have three young daughters and a 20 gauge shotgun. I have never fired it and pray to God I never will need to. But if my family's life is in immanent danger...

In such a situation, it is as being in a war, and my understanding is that mortally wounding another in self-defense or defending the life of the helpless against a would-be murderer is not an unforgivable sin. Would it require confession? Of course. Would it require penance? I would hope so. Does the Church anathematize those who have fought in wars in defense of their neighbors and families? I can't recall this being the case. In fact, we pray for those in the military in every Divine Liturgy and priests often bless soldiers prior to battle.

BTW, a shotgun is the best weapon for home defense. A 20 gauge is good because it can be handled easier by women. Just the sight of it or the sound of the 'chik-chik' is enough to make any intruder run for the closest exit (which is of course the main goal). The hope is that it will avert violence and if the assailant unfortunately chooses violence, it is a mighty weapon to have.

Edited by Antonios, 17 February 2011 - 09:31 AM.


#22 Antonios

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 09:34 AM

Dear Effie,

It must be difficult living in Greece right now. I hear reports over the Greek news channels of the increasing rampant crime, especially violent burglaries. My cousin who came to visit from Greece last month told be that Athens is a depressing place to be. I will keep you and all my compatriots in my meager prayers. The Greeks have been through even rougher times in the past and have prevailed and I have no doubt this will be the case again. Epomoni kai prosefxia.

#23 Mark Harris

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 10:47 AM

I have three young daughters and a 20 gauge shotgun. I have never fired it and pray to God I never will need to. But if my family's life is in immanent danger...

In such a situation, it is as being in a war, and my understanding is that mortally wounding another in self-defense or defending the life of the helpless against a would-be murderer is not an unforgivable sin. Would it require confession? Of course. Would it require penance? I would hope so. Does the Church anathematize those who have fought in wars in defense of their neighbors and families? I can't recall this being the case. In fact, we pray for those in the military in every Divine Liturgy and priests often bless soldiers prior to battle.

BTW, a shotgun is the best weapon for home defense. A 20 gauge is good because it can be handled easier by women. Just the sight of it or the sound of the 'chik-chik' is enough to make any intruder run for the closest exit (which is of course the main goal). The hope is that it will avert violence and if the assailant unfortunately chooses violence, it is a mighty weapon to have.



for use in the extreme no doubt where life is threatened ! However in some countries it is illegal to leave a weapon loaded. In the UK Law requires the gun to be in a locked cabinet which meets some pre approved standards (the Police inspect it and its installation) and the ammunition kept separately in a similarly secure safe and only the licence holder is allowed to even know where the keys are kept. So in the event of an emergency it is not going to help you a lot as you wont have time to get the keys and load. However if the law allows a loaded gun to be kept (so not UK) then one barrel with cartridge loaded with Rock Salt and second barrel with low load (stops but doesn't kill). I can't imagine many will wait for the second barrel and your conscience will be clear.

#24 Father David Moser

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 02:44 PM

Before this conversation gets too far afield, please remember that the focus of this forum is the discussion of Orthodox Christianity in its Monastic, Liturgical and Patristic heritage. Thus discussing how the Church responds to this topic is well within our scope, problem solving about various ways to secure your home or which weapons to use is definitely outside our scope. Please keep your comments within these parameters.

Fr David Moser

#25 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 10:37 AM

The day after I wrote my above messages which sprung from the bitterness and fright I feel at the moment, I came across the following in the back of my little book "The Divine Liturgy Explained" by Rev. Nicholas Elias.

Psalm115

I believe and therefore I spoke, but I was sore troubled. I said in my haste, All men are liars.

What reward shall I give unto the Lord : for all the benefits he hath done unto me?

I shall receive the cup of slavation: and call upon the name of the Lord. "

How could I have forgotten in my anger that I have so many things to thank God for.

Does anyone else find it strange that when we need guidance it is always given us? This morning I was reading Bishop Theofan the Recluse's letters and found something that answered a query in another thread.

I have rarely looked in the back of my Divine Liturgy book and yet here was this psalm just waiting to calm my anger - and this morning I picked the Bishop Theofan book by chance. God's ways are wonderful.

Effie

#26 Owen Jones

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 01:44 PM

The primary reason, according to my understanding, that Christians were told not to join the military, is the same reason they were told not to become employees of the state for other purposes, say teachers. You were required to burn incense at an altar to Caesar.

There are paradoxes in Christianity regarding violence and killing. Jesus's disciples carried side arms to protect him, presumably with his approval. Remember Gethsemane? On the other hand, no other "religion" takes human life as seriously. We have ancient canons regarding returning soldiers who have killed in war. It involves a one year long penance.

#27 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 06:31 PM

Dear Effie,

It must be difficult living in Greece right now. I hear reports over the Greek news channels of the increasing rampant crime, especially violent burglaries. My cousin who came to visit from Greece last month told be that Athens is a depressing place to be. I will keep you and all my compatriots in my meager prayers. The Greeks have been through even rougher times in the past and have prevailed and I have no doubt this will be the case again. Epomoni kai prosefxia.


Thank you Antonios. Greece and especially Athens is unrecognizable compared to 10 years ago. What happened to our peaceful and wonderful Greece?

What is truly astonishing is that Father Paisios predicted all this years and years ago. But who listened?

Who said that if you are asked to surrender your guns, give them one but keep another hidden?

My husband and I pray each day that God will intervene before Greece is completely destroyed.

Kai epomoni ehome kai prosefhi alla we are at the mercy of the IMF and our corrupt politicians.

We are still proud to be Greek and Orthodox Christians.

Effie

#28 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 06:38 PM

Something to laugh about :

The song The battle of New Orleans by Johnny Horton just came on.
"Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.
They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico."



While listening I imagined that the IMF and our politicians were the British........................................................

#29 Paul Cowan

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 01:07 AM

You heard this in Greece? They don't even play this here anymore. A truly Southern classic if ever there was one.

#30 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 08:27 AM

You heard this in Greece? They don't even play this here anymore. A truly Southern classic if ever there was one.


Paul, nice to speak to you again. How are you and, especially, how is your wife. Hope everything is OK.

Paul, my computer is connected to a lot of radio stations all over the world. Can't remember which one I was listening to. Classic Country 181 is a good one.

Effie

#31 Antonios

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 08:43 AM

Kai epomoni ehome kai prosefhi alla we are at the mercy of the IMF and our corrupt politicians.


We are not at their mercy. What is happening in this world right now is proof that liberty and freedom is sprouting in the deserts of the Middle East. This is extremely encouraging. As Lord Acton once said, "Eventually, it will be the people versus the banks". And that is where I think this is leading us. Greece should do everything to weather the coming storm because it may feel cataclysmic. The first thing they as a nation should be doing is celebrating more Divine Liturgies, more Paraklesis and Moleben services and start filling the churches with the faithful.

Have faith and understand our whole life is a journey, animate parables and trials, the fulfilled promises of Christ on the Mount and His sacrifice on Golgotha in the love of God. And from Golgotha to the resurrection and the blessed divine treasures of God. Glory to God for all things! Thy will be done! Have mercy on me, the prodigal sinner!




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