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Washing of the Bishop's hands

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#1 Acacius

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 09:06 PM

Under the slavic (russian) practice there are two visible 'washing of hands' moments in the hierarchical liturgy: the first prior to the entrance with the Gospel (usually performed during the 1st Antiphon; is this pure convention?) and the second during the cheruvikon.


What's the practice among the greeks and other traditions?

After the communion of the bishop his hands should be washed again? Is there any formal procedure for that?

Just to finish: I was told the subdeacon (or server) who washes the bishop's hands shall say some inaudible words (during the cheruvikon). I'm not sure about this but he would refer to the people saying 'we, faithful' or something similar. Is there any (un)written account on this?



#2 Jeremy Troy

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 03:35 PM

I believe the Greek tradition only has one hand-washing, before the Great Entrance.



#3 Acacius

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 04:33 PM

I believe the Greek tradition only has one hand-washing, before the Great Entrance.

 

 

Is it also performed in front of the Royal Gates?

 



#4 Jeremy Troy

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 05:24 PM

Yes, it is. The subdeacon will exit the South door, and walk up to the Royal Doors, where the Bishop will turn and wash his hands.



#5 Father David Moser

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 08:20 PM

Under the slavic (russian) practice there are two visible 'washing of hands' moments in the hierarchical liturgy: the first prior to the entrance with the Gospel (usually performed during the 1st Antiphon; is this pure convention?) and the second during the cheruvikon.


Just to finish: I was told the subdeacon (or server) who washes the bishop's hands shall say some inaudible words (during the cheruvikon). I'm not sure about this but he would refer to the people saying 'we, faithful' or something similar. Is there any (un)written account on this?

Not sure where you got the rubrics for this.  The first handwashing for the bishop is a part of the vesting prior to the liturgy - the service books say immediately after the 3rd psalm of the 6th hour is read. If this vesting is in the temple, then it is "visible" but if the bishop vests in the altar it is not. The second is, as you say, at the royal doors during the cherubic hymn.  There is no handwashing prescribed (or even really possible) during the 1st Antiphon.

 

As far as I can tell and in my own experience, there is nothing said either audibly or inaudibly by the subdeacons or servers during the washing of hands at all. 

 

Fr David Moser



#6 Acacius

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 04:24 AM

Not sure where you got the rubrics for this.  The first handwashing for the bishop is a part of the vesting prior to the liturgy - the service books say immediately after the 3rd psalm of the 6th hour is read. If this vesting is in the temple, then it is "visible" but if the bishop vests in the altar it is not. The second is, as you say, at the royal doors during the cherubic hymn.  There is no handwashing prescribed (or even really possible) during the 1st Antiphon.

 

As far as I can tell and in my own experience, there is nothing said either audibly or inaudibly by the subdeacons or servers during the washing of hands at all. 

 

Fr David Moser

 

 

Bless, Father.

 

And thanks for the clarification. Actually I was recalling some videos from Russia and Poland, like this one: https://www.youtube....-0nBhPXI#t=3006

 

Any reasonable idea about this?

 

What about the supposed hand-washing after communion? Any comment?



#7 Acacius

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 04:50 AM

It seems the case is similar for the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts. This video shows the 1st handwashing in the very beginning of Vespers:



The rubrics for the Liturgy of the Presanctified are different?


Edited by Acacius, 03 March 2015 - 04:58 AM.


#8 Father David Moser

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:34 PM

Although I did not see this happen (and it may not have given that there was a total of 1 (one) server: the bishop's subdeacon) for the hierarchal presanctified divine liturgy (with two bishops) - I did ask a couple of long time bishop's deacons (now priests) who confirmed that yes, the 1st washing of the bishop's hands does take place during the antiphons of the hierarchal Divine Liturgy.

 

Fr David Moser



#9 Brian Patrick Mitchell

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 11:27 PM

In the OCA, the bishop usually washes his hands during the first antiphon, instead of during the third hour, because the hours are usually read before the bishop's arrival, not between the vesting and the Divine Liturgy. Often an OCA bishop will vest in the altar during the hours and wash his hands during the first antiphon. 

 

In both the OCA and ROCOR, there is a prayer for the washing, read by the protodeacon. Here's the OCA version (I've never found a ROCOR version in English, but I know one exists in Slavonic): 

 

I will wash my hands among the innocent, and I will compass Thine altar, O Lord, that I may hear the voice of Thy praise, and declare all Thy wonders. Lord, I have loved the beauty of Thine house, and the place of the abode of Thy glory. Destroy not my soul with the impious, nor my life with men of blood, in whose hands are transgressions and their right hand is full of gifts. But I, I have walked in mine innocence; redeem me, O Lord, and have mercy on me. My foot hath stood in uprightness; in the churches will I
bless thee, O Lord.


Pdn Patrick


Edited by Brian Patrick Mitchell, 19 March 2015 - 11:29 PM.


#10 Father David Moser

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 02:13 PM

Fr Patrick,

 

That prayer (as I know you well know) is the standard prayer for the ritual washing of hands by all clergy before the beginning of the liturgy - it is said by priests and deacons as they wash their hands after vesting.  The English version of the prayer is easily found in any of the English Sluzhebniki (service books) that contain the vesting prayers.  The most prevalent and functional "official" version (though there is no single "official" version within ROCOR of English in the Orthodox Church in North America) is that of Fr Lawrence (John in monastic tonsure, may God grant him rest).

 

Fr David Moser

 

PS Congratulations on your Name Day (just celebrated New Calendar and coming soon on the Old Calendar).



#11 Brian Patrick Mitchell

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 03:41 PM

Thank you, Father. I did not know that. In the OCA, deacons don't ritually wash their hands after vesting. Still learning ROCOR ways.

 

Pdn Patrick



#12 Father David Moser

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 03:36 PM

This will be kind of a digression from the main topic of when do you wash the bishop's hands.

Just some thoughts on the sanctity of the diaconate and how that flows into the washing of hands. The deacon would wash his hands after vesting just as the priest does because he too receives the Holy Gifts in his hand.  The deacon also no longer handles things that rest on the floor (bishop's rugs for a primary example) since he will later take the Holy Things into those same hands. (Our Archbishop's long time assistant and subdeacon was recently given monastic tonsure and ordained to the diaconate.  He is constantly stopping himself - or being stopped by the other subdeacons - from reaching down and moving the eagle rugs, which was his duty for many many years.)  l  In some Greek practices, the faithful will kiss the hand of a deacon in the same manner that they would that of the priest because that hand has held the Body and Blood of Christ. 

 

Fr David Moser







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