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Realization of one's sins


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#1 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 12:14 PM

I recently came across this http://www.holy-tran...tronghold1.html

 

I wonder if all that is said about sin and pride is sound. Is the piece too determined at all by Jungian psychology (about which I know nothing)? Is it the case that turning in on oneself and tending to introverted self-reflection is an aspect of pride?

 

Additionally, since, in the opening paragraph, the realization of one's sins is rated so highly by St Isaac the Syrian, in what does this realization consist? Is it more than merely being aware of one's sins?


Edited by Reader Andreas, 30 May 2015 - 12:16 PM.


#2 Lakis Papas

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 06:44 PM

Aware of one's sin can be two folded:

1. I did something wrong, I have to focus on myself to restore my perfection
2. I did something wrong, I have to focus on other persons who suffer due to my acts, in order to restore their loses by paying from my personal wealth (material or spiritual)

Edited by Lakis Papas, 30 May 2015 - 06:48 PM.


#3 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 06:53 PM

'I did something wrong' is probably, for most people, not hard to see. Is St Isaac talking about something deeper and more subtle?

 

I would welcome thoughts on the main question, also.



#4 Phoebe K.

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 08:08 PM

I think from my still limited understanding of theology that the artical describes what I have seen in many other places both in the fathers and more modern texts about the development of passions (any not just pride).  I will not comment on the references to the Ladder of divine assent as I have only recently go this and am only in the early stages of my first reading of it.

 

Personally I think the use of Jungian types is not reverent to the question at hand, since it is a product of modern science, not the science of the fathers which is what we use to understand sin.  Jugian types are used in some forms of western Spirituality, mostly to give a reason of many types of worship, and in my opinion as an excuse why people will not accept that the Church in her wisdom can say one thing for all people.  I cannot see how it can be in any way retentive to the life of an Orthodox Christian.

 

I have seen in some stories told by saints  and some monastics as well as other writings that a too much concern for how you are seen by others can be a symptom of pride and inexperience in the Spiritual life.  The peace labors some points too much and misses others that the fathers mention, in my opinion it is not a compleatly balanced peace and needs to be tempered with the other writings both modern and from the fathers.



#5 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 10:03 PM

Thank you, Phoebe. Could say which points you think the piece misses?



#6 Phoebe K.

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 12:57 PM

Andreas,  

 

I could tell it missed things as it did not feel right, it is like eating a meal and being able to taste something is missing but not knowing what it is.  It just did not chime fully with the texts I have read from St Theophan and some of the more recant fathers.

 

Phoebe



#7 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 01:47 PM

My reaction is similar to Phoebe's. At first, I thought the piece was helpful, and in some respects, I think it is, but at the same time I have some reservations which I cannot, though, articulate. It would be very useful to have further input on this, perhaps from the Fathers here since if material is put out on Orthodox parish web sites which has any question marks over it, we ought to have these clarified for us.






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