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Sex before marriage as a grievous sin


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#1 Niko92

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 06:50 AM

Hi Everyone,

 

Quick question.

 

From what I have read it is a sin to have sex before marriage however i just wanted to know if that applies if you are in a loving relationship with only one women?

Would that make a difference as in you two may not be able to get married due to financial constraints as an example off the top of my head etc but will get married in the future.

Thanks heaps



#2 Father David Moser

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 01:40 PM

Yes, it is a sin to "have sex" outside of marriage - no exceptions.

 

Fr David Moser



#3 John S.

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 02:16 PM

And incidentally, I never understood that--i.e., not being able to get married "due to financial constraints". Marriage isn't expensive! In fact, it can save you TONS of money through tax benefits (at least in USA) and through living together and sharing housing/food/utility expenses, etc.

 

We tend to make marriage expensive when we think we want/need huge weddings, elaborate receptions, engagement rings that cost thousands of dollars, etc. I know a couple that just had a simple wedding in church after liturgy one day and a small reception in the church hall akin to a really nice coffee hour. It was beautiful, and they've been happily married for years.



#4 Lakis Papas

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 05:14 PM

Sex is actually an imaginary substitute for man's victory over death. 

 

Eros based on the senses is a narcotic that dulls man in his struggle against death.

 

The rules of the Church are there to give hope that by the grace of God death is defeated and not to give the feeling that humans are convicts destined to serve long sentences. 



#5 Ben Johnson

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 05:25 AM

Yes.  One mujst be one flesh to engage.



#6 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 12:57 PM

In St Silouan the Athonite, Archimandrite Sophrony tells how St Silouan, when a young man, was with his girlfriend and 'what so often happens befell late one summer evening' and though confessed and forgiven he never forgot his sin.



#7 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 01:36 AM

Two people becoming one, working towards each other's salvation, is generally not a good idea without first getting God's blessing on that activity.



#8 Niko92

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 12:51 AM

Thanks for all the replies it is greatly appreciated!

 

I asked this on another forum but thought i would here too:

 

If for example you are trying to live as much of a Orthodox Christian life meaning fasting, attending all vespers and liturgies, taking holy communion etc etc and are still fornicating which you know is a sin, isn't that a contradiction in some way or is it seen as just your personal struggle? What i mean is no matter how pious we are and how much we strive to live an Orthodox Christian life we will always be sinners. So whether it is the sin of fornication or lying isn't it all the same since we don't classify any sins bigger then others? 

 

I mean this way if we were to look at it as a contradiction we would never have Orthodox Christians or am i totally off in my thinking?



#9 Phoebe K.

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 03:35 PM

From my limited experience, there is a distinction between when we struggle against a temptation to sin (which is a state of normality for most of us),   and atuly giving in to the temptation and sinning.  The aim for us in our spiritual life is not to give in to the temptations, and learn eventually how to not pay attention to the temptations.  We will always have to struggle with our fallen nature, but it is possible to do this without sinning, though most of us cannot restrain our fallen nature to the point of not sinning at all, so we have to use the path of repentance.

 

When we atuly fall into a sin we need to go to our spiritual father and deal with it as he advises us, from what experience I have had and that of friends most spiritual fathers will not allow people to receive communion while they are living in sin.

 

It is not possible to be living a pious life and be living in actively in sin, as I understand it one of the key things of living the Orthodox life is to resit sin and therefore to knowingly live in sin is a contradiction to living a faithfully life.  This is why we need a spiritual father who knows us well who can point out to us when we have gone of the path of truth and how best to restore us to the life of faith.  We can sin and then repent and therefore be leading a faithful life, if we persist in sin though we cannot say we are living faithfully.



#10 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 06:26 PM

I would have thought that someone who habitually fornicates would be barred from Holy Communion by his confessor. If the person fornicates and does not confess it and takes Holy Communion, he is subject to judgment and condemnation.



#11 Jean-Serge

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 04:43 PM

So whether it is the sin of fornication or lying isn't it all the same since we don't classify any sins bigger then others? 

 

This is not exact. There is no detailed classification as in catholic church between mortal and non mortal sins. However, there is a gradation in sins as attested by differents elements.

 

1) The penance varies according to the gravity of the sin as and is a clear indication fo its gravity. For instance, according to the canons of Saint John the Faster, having sexual thoughts that should not be, is penanced with 12 prostrations but committing fornication is penanced with 2 years without communion, fasting until the 9th hour and 250 prostrations a day.

 

2) The concept of mortal sin does exist in orthodoxy and the word is used by Saint Nikodemos of the Holy Mountain that explains that other used it before him without giving a accurate definition: for some mortal sins were sins condemned by death in the Old covenant

 

But at the same time, as Jean-Claude Larchet states it in his book "La vie sacramentelle", the final consequence of a sin is not known. What seems to be a small sin might have very consequences... You slander someone, the rummor grows and he ends with his reputation ruined, his job lost, a mental depression and commits suicide. The example is mine.



#12 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 12:50 AM

There are big sins and there are little sins, but all are sin. If a boat has a big hole in it, it sinks quickly. If a boat has a lot of little holes, it also sinks quickly. If it only has one or two small holes, it still sinks, just slowly.






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