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Questions on jurisdictions in Australia


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#1 Kosta

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 11:31 PM

I would like to ask a question on the jurisdictional situation in Australia.

In America this is a hot topic, yet I do not know why. As typical we think we are the center of the world and many think this inter-Orthodox council for 2016 is meant to fix this U.S. problem.

I see pros and cons with a single American synod, i prefer the status quo but no real biggie for me. In the states, nominalist orthodoxy abounds and its comnon to sweep the canons under the rug in the name of ekonomia. Yet when it comes to this issue the unionists
insist on akriveia.

Is it the same in Australia?

Edited by Kosta, 07 October 2015 - 11:33 PM.


#2 Olga

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 01:15 AM

I'm inclined to believe that this preoccupation with jurisdictional unity is largely an American phenomenon. I've not encountered much, if any, of it, here.



#3 Kosta

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 02:19 PM

Thats what I figured.

#4 Panayotis

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 05:50 PM

I've noticed this too. What do you think is the cause of this? Nationalism? Xenophobia? The assimilation mindset? The inability to view unity in anything other than outward, administrative terms?

#5 Brian Patrick Mitchell

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 07:50 PM

The disputed status of the OCA makes jurisdictional unity a permanent issue in the US. Then there's the desire of some Greeks to unite everyone under Constantinople, the desire of other Greeks to wrest control of their churches away from Constantinople, and the desire of other Orthodox Americans (often recent converts) to create a single, American-friendly version of Orthodoxy to make the most of our witness in America for both religious and political purposes.

#6 Kosta

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 08:51 PM

I dont even think the OCA believe in their own autocephaly . Personally I would choose to be under the Church of Greece if I had my way, dont care much for the EP. 

 

Yes many and not just the converts are looking for the Church to make be more political. The nominal greeks just want a secular church which infuses some greek culture and embraces worldliness (and a place to network and make business contacts). In the end of the day I see Orthodoxy in America to be a church of sojouners not a permanent fixture.  This unified church is unrealistic because the religious landscape of America is based on diversity of religion.  In America, Orthodoxy is compromised of embassy churches, not some unified church which would crumble in a few generations to begin with.



#7 Lakis Papas

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 05:01 PM

Historically, Church as an organization was always fragmented and under paternalism from political power. The romantic idea of a "unified" Church never existed.

 

The Church is always one as the Body of Christ, but it always failed to be one as a human institution.



#8 Kosta

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 08:20 PM

I've noticed this too. What do you think is the cause of this? Nationalism? Xenophobia? The assimilation mindset? The inability to view unity in anything other than outward, administrative terms?


I dont believe its in human nature to seek unity. There is no virtue in some globalized institution. People prefer not to get lost in some external universal identity. People prefer smaller niche groups where their identity and customs are preserved.

#9 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 10:47 PM

There is ONE Greek Church in Greece. There is One Russian Church in Russia. There is ONE Serbian Church in Serbia. There is ONE Bulgarian Church in Bulgaria.  OK there are several Ukrainian Churches in Ukraine but THAT country is messed up to begin with, and I don't think anyone thinks it is a good situation. Why can't there be ONE Orthodox Church in America? It is not the Americans who are for fractionalization, it is the Greeks, Russians, Serbians, Bulgarians in America.

 

If there is one Church in Russia or Greece, is it because of xenophobic nationalism? Seems a bit hypocritical to me?



#10 Kosta

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 01:40 AM

Those countries have been Orthodox for millenia and are mostly homogenous. It would be unfair for an influx of immigrant arab christians to be merged into a westernized Orthodox church. They have values and morals different from ours. Now you can have an American Orthodox Church as long as they're are embassy churches side by side.

#11 Panayotis

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 05:22 PM

Herman, I apologize if the way that my statements were expressed was uncharitable. Yes, the examples you gave are worthy of imitation. In the case of Russia for instance, centuries after the Baptism of Rus, the Russians remained subject to the Patriarch of Constantinople and their Metropolitans were usually Greek. So it's not like they sought to form their own national church after a couple of decades. And I suspect that not long after the flourishing of sanctity and monasticism, the Russians were ready to have their own church. Let's follow their example.


Edited by Panayotis, 13 October 2015 - 05:25 PM.


#12 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 12:33 AM

However, the Russians were not "granted" autocephaly. When they declared their independence, the Ecumenical Patriarch denied it for a long time, until after decades he merely acquiesced. The "mother churches" can be quite the helicopter parents.






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