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Question about Lex Orandi Lex Credendi


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#1 SeanN

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 10:57 AM

What is the Orthodox understanding of the phrase, Lex Orandi Lex Credendi?

 

Does it simply mean that the liturgical practices (such as the prayers, hymns, and icons) merely reflect what the Church believes and teaches? Or does it also mean that they are inspired by God and carry dogmatic authority, just like the Scriptures and the Ecumenical Councils?

 

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#2 Kosta

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 11:52 PM

What is the Orthodox understanding of the phrase, Lex Orandi Lex Credendi?
 
Does it simply mean that the liturgical practices (such as the prayers, hymns, and icons) merely reflect what the Church believes and teaches? Or does it also mean that they are inspired by God and carry dogmatic authority, just like the Scriptures and the Ecumenical Councils?
 
Thanks.   


Both. As an example there are places where the bible is banned or where most people are illiterate. The liturgies and cycle of services of the liturgical calendar becomes the very vehicle which preserves and passes down the fullness of the entire christian faith once delivered down to each successive generation. Dogmas of ecumenical councils only clarify the Traditions already held.

#3 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 07:17 AM

If we focus on the word credendi, and consider its Latin etymology, we find that it literally means ‘to give one’s heart’. The OED indicates that the etymology of the English word believe includes the obsolete (since c. 1400) yleve which carries the meaning of love into early usage of believe. Thus to say that we believe in what we pray means not mere intellectual assent but means that we trust in and so give our hearts to what the Church has revealed to us through all aspects of her Holy Tradition. All this brings us closer, I think, to the meaning of the original Greek word pistevo (πιστεύω).



#4 Lakis Papas

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 07:01 PM

Worship highlights what is shown (the obvious), very few Christian heresies began by diversify in worship.

 

Also, some heretic novelties in worship were adopted by Orthodox Church. Singing in worship was a novelty introduced by Arians in their worship practice, only after them to be adopted by Orthodox anti-Arian Church.

 

What is important is the Spirit that is expressed by the worship culture. The worship culture itself constantly alters and follows human social evolution.

 

All things are inspired, even "mistakes" sometimes are inspired, We use to think that inspiration and spirituality are somehow connected. But there are inspired people that lack any spiritual maturity.  And there are non-inspired saints full of Spirit.

 

Public worship requires talents of secular type and needs specific time/duration.

 

Private worship - private prayer - requires spiritual progress and sometimes it happens in silence and in no time,  or sometimes it needs all the available time. 



#5 Ben Johnson

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 04:49 AM

Both, although I would not base theology on prayers, hymns, and icons alone.



#6 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 08:26 AM

Both, although I would not base theology on prayers, hymns, and icons alone.

 

But surely our liturgical texts and canonical icons fully express our theology - what do you think they lack?



#7 Anna Stickles

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 02:05 AM

It is not that they lack anything, the fullness of the Church is present in each part.  the issue I think is more in terms of what we need in order to understand fully. For someone who has learned to read icons, surely the fullness of our theology can be and is expressed in them, but it takes something beyond the icon in order to learn to read the icon.

 

Reading Scripture, reading the Fathers, reading and venerating icons and the saints and their lives, listening to the hymns in worship or studying them at home, this is all mutually illuminating and helps us grow in the fullness of our understanding.



#8 SeanN

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 03:33 AM

Thanks for the answers, all! Now that I know that the answer is "both," I will submit my intellectual will to what the hymns, prayers, and icons teach, despite what modern-day scholars claim.


Edited by SeanN, 30 November 2015 - 03:34 AM.


#9 Ben Johnson

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 06:32 AM

It is not that they lack anything, the fullness of the Church is present in each part.  the issue I think is more in terms of what we need in order to understand fully. For someone who has learned to read icons, surely the fullness of our theology can be and is expressed in them, but it takes something beyond the icon in order to learn to read the icon.

 

Reading Scripture, reading the Fathers, reading and venerating icons and the saints and their lives, listening to the hymns in worship or studying them at home, this is all mutually illuminating and helps us grow in the fullness of our understanding.

I could not agree more.  Thanks.






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