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Roman Catolics and Protestants


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#21 Lakis Papas

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 01:53 PM

There was a time, in early ancient Church, that state and society were anti-christian. The world was not aware of Spirit's presence. At that time christians were a minority under persecution. Then happen a massive social christianization, state united to christianity. This phenomenon had the effect of historical suppresion of personal freedom. Authentic christianity was put into small communities into monasteries.
Now, society is liberating from christianity, which is not a bad thing to happen.
Christianity is not a social movement. We must understand that most people are
not ready to accept Christ as a spiritual King. We should let these people go. Christ did not establish a majority spiritual movement.
We list differences, there are many. But in reality there is only one: being part of Christ's body, or not.

Edited by Lakis Papas, 25 December 2015 - 01:55 PM.


#22 Phoebe K.

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 03:05 PM

I think both Andreas and Lakis make a valid point the Christianity grew in it's primitive years in persuasion and many of our saints have come from times of persecution.  

 

We need to act with descression and Love in showing people where they have not found the full truth, as St Silouan advises.  We would also do well to take St Seraphim's advice and seek to acquire peace and those around us will come to salvation.

 

We need to follow the Lord's advice and be as wise a serpents, but as innocent as doves in relation to the world.

 

Phoebe



#23 Kosta

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 03:49 PM


Just to clarify: Rotherham (not 'Rotherdam') is a town in South Yorkshire and is, as it happens, where I was born, educated and lived until I was age 23. The abuse of white girls there has been perpetrated by Muslim men of Pakistani origin and so this has nothing to do with English Christianity. It is true, though, that in England the Church of England and English Protestant sects have so far departed from the Christian faith as hardly to be considered Christian anymore.


I really don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I know theres a few british posters here. From anglican forums and what I see amongst their leadership, Anglicanism is ground zero for the promotion of Feminism, and homosexual marriage and ordinations within christianity. Their arguments make no sense to most women of the world but only to their own. This battle of the sexes has been going on for centuries in Britain. Rotherham Is just one symptom of feminism and its midwife of multicultism. Reading up on it in the media, i noticed terminology unique to british culture I've never heard before. They refered to what seemed to be cases of rape and manipulation as a fetish called "grooming". Atleast one media account took the side of the rapists or groomers which depicted this behavior as multicultural diversity. Something about being racist if you don't let the british girls service the saracens. This shows that the heresy of anglican feminism is derived from british culture itself. They invented "patriarchy" narrative as an excuse of their own internal sexual disfunction. This is where Orthodoxy differs from euro-christianity. We embrace patriarchy, we reject egalitarianism. In Orthodoxy there is an ordering of the sexes with distinctive roles. This is something that the OP should know in that he will be speaking to scandinavian atheists who have been indoctrinated into the anti-christian feminism. This is a major difference that most in his area may not even be able to wrap their minds around.

Edited by Kosta, 25 December 2015 - 03:52 PM.


#24 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 11:59 PM

Kosta, I have to say that what you say about Rotherham is not accurate in that the large scale abuse of girls has nothing whatever to do with feminism. It does appear that local officials and others concerned were afraid to point the finger at Muslims allegedly involved in abuse for fear of being called racist, such is the grip of multiculturalism and political correctness in many parts of the country; but the problem of multiculturism and political correctness exists in many western countries. You may not be aware that HM Government was appalled by what happened in Rotherham, and the clear mismanagement of the town was met by the local government being suspended and officials sent from London to take over the running of the town. Furthermore, a senior judge (Lowell Goddard QC, of the New Zealand High Court) has been tasked with investigating sexual abuse generally in Britain.  'Grooming' is the name given to the preparing by older people of youngsters for sexual purposes - it is a criminal offence. There have been convictions of some of those involved in abuse in Rotherham and more may follow. The Anglican Church has very little to do with anything at a local level.



#25 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 12:24 AM

PS These things are not what the thread is about.



#26 Georgije Z.

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 09:14 PM

Many thanks, dear friends.

 

 

While I agree with almost everything you write, I have to select some of your thoughts and make it as a "list".

 

One thing that Kosta opened in my mind is that in the Orthodox Church one is called for perfection in Christ, while in the Protestantism the church is called for perfection in democracy, human rights, etc.

 

My personal feeling (since I lived in both a Catholic and Protestant country) is that in the Roman Catholic you have to look like religious, in Protestant you have to speak like religious, and in the Orthodox Church you are just religious.

But that is just my feeling..



#27 Kosta

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 12:40 AM

Many thanks, dear friends.


While I agree with almost everything you write, I have to select some of your thoughts and make it as a "list".

One thing that Kosta opened in my mind is that in the Orthodox Church one is called for perfection in Christ, while in the Protestantism the church is called for perfection in democracy, human rights, etc.

Bingo. European christianity is a godless christianity. Best seen in groups like the Salvation Army,Unitarians, and all the reformed state Lutheran churches, and we can even lump the ecumenists in that category. They are simply extensions of liberal democracies.

Virtually all the virtues of liberal democracies are considered either not ideal or right out sinful in Orthodoxy. Heck, the very symbolisms of the Church requires us to favor an absolute monarchy over any democracy. So when a person is born and raised in the modern day european environment and he asks what are the differences between Orthodoxy and the rest we don't have to sugarcoat anything. Just tell him to throw out all his preconceived notions, it's everything that modernist european culture is not.
We reject women from ordination because 'patriarchy' is sufficient. The entire reason deaconess are no longer appointed is precisely because equality has made the office obselete. No longer are priests required to have a deaconess present to assist in female baptisms, nor are men and women segregated anymore rendering the order obselete. A priest can lawfully enter a womans quarters and administer the sacraments themselves now.
We do not accept homosexual unions, as they are sinful and soul condemning regardless of what european christianity preaches. We cannot marry such people because our wedding service is mostly fertility prayers (among other things), the same reason why people over 60 are not married.
We do not believe in eqalitarianism of the sexes because God has an ordering of the sexes and nature bears this out.
We do not look to social justice as a substitute for personal holiness. Planting a tree does not mean you are exempt from fasting or the sacraments like members of the Salvation Army believe.

Edited by Kosta, 29 December 2015 - 12:45 AM.


#28 Jean-Serge

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 09:40 PM

If we invite them to come and see a service, which when a person is relay interested is the best way forward, we do need to of course say that only Orthodox who have prepared receive communion as many churches in the west have a practice of inter-communion.

 

The theory is that non orthodox do not commune at orthodox liturgy. But, it is difficult to keep on saying this when you see so many places where  communion is given to catholics or protestants and that there is no sanction and that it is even blessed by the orthodox bishop. Double speech is not positive.



#29 Phoebe K.

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 10:04 PM

There are a few places where such abuses of the Traditions of the Church occur, it is not our place to judge those involved in it, however we must decide whether we can approach the Chalice when we see it happening.  Further to this discussing it with our Spiritual father and possibly moving away from that parish so as to remove ourselves form the situation.  It may also be appropriate if our Spiritual Father agrees to tell the appropriate bishop or if the Bishop is involved Synod of what has happened.  Our responsibility though is for ourselves and for the most part it is better for us to absent ourselves form the situation even if it means we can only receive communion very occasionally than to put ourselves in a situation which we know is sinful.

 

Phoebe



#30 Felixir

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 11:33 AM

I appreciate everything you say here, and would reiterate that we must be vigilant and build a fence around the faith, but making it harder to 'join the Church' is, you must acknowledge, fraught with all kinds of difficulties posed by the Gospel itself. God is Love. Not the wishy-washy 'love' of western modernity, granted, but we must remember what St. Paul tells us about love...



#31 Phoebe K.

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 02:20 PM

We must be open to everyone coming to see what we do and asking questions, last month at one of the parishes we go to we had a group of children from the parish we rent the church building from brought in to see what we do and ask questions, that is fine an a chance to spread the faith.  I have recently also invited a friend to come and see, that is the most loving thing we can do invite people to come and experience.

 

It is open to all to come and see out worship, and all can chose to come into the church via catichisam and being received.  It is not loving for us to expose people the power and Glory of the Lord without preperation.  We should be careful and mindful of ourselves when we approach communion as the living fire which can consume us, why would we put those who we love in danger if they are not properly ready to approach.



#32 Ben Johnson

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 06:18 AM

Hello all.

 

First I want to explain that my question is NOT regarding myself, NOR I want to enkindle discussion by opposing answers.

 

I live in the northern Europe, people are primarily atheists or protestants.

I get many questions about the Orthodox Church and basic theology. So many ask me "what is difference between the Orthodox and Roman?" "What is difference between Orthodox and Protestants?".

 

I basically improvise, making it impossible to catch all points together.

 

So, if you would make a list what is "the difference", can you list it?

I need a simple list as a reminder, and that list should speak out clear and simple (for people not versed in theological terms).

So, instead of explaining in detail the filioque, rather just say that it is "change in Credo that violates the doctrine".

 

Also, the list would include not only theoretical, but also practical, historical, personal...

 

Thank you.

Although Western and Eastern Christianities use both types of theology, the West tends to use more positive theology, while the East uses more negative theology.



#33 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 08:03 PM

The west is scholastic - the east is mystical. This is best exemplified by St Gregory Palamas. Attempts in very recent times to accommodate western theology to an extent, for example, to have a sympathetic view of Thomas Aquinas (as per Dr Marcus Plested), are misplaced.






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