Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Question regarding Passage in St Gregory of Nazianzus's Fifth Theological Oration


  • Please log in to reply
2 replies to this topic

#1 kephas

kephas

    New Member

  • Members
  • 1 posts
  • Guest from Another Religious Tradition

Posted 19 April 2016 - 06:57 AM

hello. I would like to ask about a specific passage, from the ninth paragraph of St Gregory's Fifth Theological Oration. It is written:

 

"But the difference of manifestation, if I may so express myself, or rather of their mutual relations one to another, has caused the difference of their Names."
 

what is meant by "one to another"? Does it mean that each of the Persons of the Holy Trinity has a mutual relation with each of the other two Persons? Or does it mean that each Person has a mutual relation to at least one of the other Persons?

 

what does the Greek original text say?

 

A catholic apologetic website, quotes one Fr Martin Jugie, who opines that the passage states the former opinion, thus the Holy Spirit and the Son has a mutual relation with one another, and according to the context of the passage, the relations that is being spoken is relation of origin. Thus if there is a relation of origin between the Holy Spirit and the Son, therefore the filioque doctrine is justified.

 

i find to agree that the relations spoken in the passage is about relations of origin, according to the context of the passage. But is the text saying that there is a relation of origin between the Holy Spirit and the Son?

 

thank you



#2 Rdr Daniel (R.)

Rdr Daniel (R.)

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Validating
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 03 May 2016 - 02:12 PM

Of course there is a mutual relation of each of the Holy Trinity to one another or else we would be tri-theists! But we have received from the beginning that this relation is a unity of nature, for even as the Son is begotten of the Father and the Spirit proceeds from the Father, so also is there one essence and one nature of the most Holy Trinity. Now as to the quote on the apologetic website: should the mutual relation be with each other and relate to origin and thereby the Spirit be said to have His origin in the Son, then likewise can the Son be said to have His origin in the Spirit and likewise the Father also, thus a whole manner of heresies can be justified. But away with these blasphemies which the papists themselves dare not to utter -for even they do not say that the Spirit has His origin in the Son but in some manner proceeds from the Son from the Father as the single source-  lest we not only find ourselves condemned but also testify that so great a saint of God should be found to be teach that which is contrary both to Holy Orthodoxy and papism. Whereas he himself early declared 'The Holy Ghost, which proceeds from the Father; Who, inasmuch as He proceeds from That Source, is no Creature; and inasmuch as He is not Begotten is no Son; and inasmuch as He is between the Unbegotten and the Begotten is God.' For the Spirit proceeds from the Father even as the Son is begotten of the Father. So we have the Father from whom the Son is begotten and the Spirit proceeds, the Son who is begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father - even as the Son Himself declared, One Holy Trinity to whom be the glory both now and ever and unto the ages of ages. Amen.



#3 Lakis Papas

Lakis Papas

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 617 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 03 May 2016 - 07:44 PM

The context has nothing to do with the theology of Vatican.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users