Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

'Times of the End' by Elder Paisios: original or hoax?


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 Fabio Lins

Fabio Lins

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts

Posted 30 March 2009 - 11:56 PM

I found this text on the net and I would like to share it with some friends, but I still have not found any reference or source that proves that it is really by Elder Paisios. Does anyone know if it was really written by him and where the original text is.

In Christ,
Fabio L. Leite



Elder Paissios Holy Mount Athos before his death in 1994



TIMES OF THE END



Translated from a Russian translation of the Greek original

Editor's note: On a remote, narrow peninsula in the Aegean Sea lies the monastic republic of Mt. Athos, spiritual heart of the Orthodox Christian world. For centuries monks have lived and prayed here for the salvation of their souls and the world, and every devout Orthodox Christian male strives to make the pilgrimage to Mt. Athos at least once in his life. Elder Paissios (1924-1994) is considered by many to have been one of the Holy Mount's greatest ascetics of the 20th Century. Over the course of his life the words of this humble Greek monk, who came to be honored by believers as an "holy elder" (geronta in Greek, starets in Russian), were recorded by the thousands who journeyed to seek his advice and prophecies. In the following quotes Paissios warns of the great cataclysms which await us in our Apocalyptic times. His counsel of spiritual preparedness and how to achieve it will be of use to all those who strive to do good while maintaining spiritual equilibrium in a world growing increasingly hostile to our salvation. Paissios seems to have foreseen everything: the ever more frequent and senseless wars and the growing totalitarianism of "Schengen Europe", "Homeland Securitized" America and "Putinized" Russia, the downward slide of our modern, globalized world into licentiousness and madness, the approaching Last Judgement.


"There's a war on today, a holy war..."

"If the Metropolitans are silent, then who will speak?"

that unsettles me is the reigning mood of tranquility. Something is in the works. We still haven't understood properly either what's going on, or the fact that we will die. I don't know what will come of this. The situation is very complicated. The fate of the world depends on just a few people, but God is still putting on the brakes. We have to pray a lot, and with pain in our hearts, so that God will intervene: our times are very hard to understand. A lot of ash, rubbish, and indifference has accumulated, and a strong wind will be needed to blow it all away.

It's frightening! The Tower of Babel is upon us! Divine intervention is needed: Great upheavals are happening. What a bedlam! The minds of whole nations are in confusion. But in spite of the ferment I feel a certain consolation inside, a certain confidence. God still dwells in a part of the Christians. God's people, people of prayer, still remain, and God in his all-goodness still tolerates us and will put everything in order. Don't be afraid! We've gone through many storms, and still haven't perished. So should we be afraid of the storm which is now gathering? We'll not perish this time either!

God loves us. In Man there's a hidden power which comes out when necessary. The difficult years will be few. Just a lot of thunder.

Don't get upset in the least, for God is above everything. He rules everyone and will bring all to the defendant's bench to answer for what they've done, according to which each will receive his just desserts from God. Those who've in some way helped the cause of good will be rewarded, and those who do evil will be punished. God will put everyone in their place in the end, but each of us will answer for what they did in these difficult years, both in prayer and in deeds.

Today they're trying to destroy faith, and for the edifice of faith to fall they quietly pull out one stone, then another. But we're all responsible for the destruction; not just those who destroy but we who see how faith is being undermined and make no effort to strengthen it. As a result the seducers are emboldened to create even greater difficulties for us, and their rage against the Church and the monastic life increases.

Today's situation can be resisted only spiritually, not by worldly means. The storm will continue to rage a bit, will throw all the flotsam, everything unnecessary, onto the shore, and then the situation will become clearer. Some will receive their reward, while others will have to pay their debts.

Today there are many who strive to corrupt everything: the family, the youth, the Church. In our day it's a true witness to speak up for one's people, for the state is waging war against divine law. It's laws are directed against the Law of God.

But we are responsible for not letting the enemies of the Church corrupt everything. Though I've heard even priests say: "Don't get involved in that. It's none of your business!" If they had reached such a non-striving condition through prayer I would kiss their feet. But no! They're indifferent because they want to please everyone and live in comfort.

Indifference is unacceptable even for laymen, and all the more so for the clergy. An honest, spiritual man doesn't do anything with indifference. "Cursed be he that doeth the work of the Lord deceitfully", says the Prophet Jeremiah (Jer. 48:10). There's a war on today, a holy war. I must be on the front lines. There are so many Marxists, so many Masons, so many Satanists and assorted others! So many possessed, anarchists and seduced ones! I see what awaits us, and it's painful for me. The bitter taste of human pain is in my mouth.

* * *

The spirit of lukewarmness reigns. There's no manliness at all! We've been spoiled for good! How does God still tolerate us? Today's generation is the generation of indifference. There are no warriors The majority are fit only for parades.

Godlessness and blasphemy are allowed to appear on television. And the Church is silent and doesn't excommunicate the blasphemers. And they need to be excommunicated. What are they waiting for? Let's not wait for someone else to pull the snake out from its hole so that we can live in peace.

They're silent out of indifference. What's bad is that even people who've got something inside have begun to grow cool, saying: "Can I really do anything to change the situation?" We have to witness our faith with boldness, because if we continue to be silent we'll have to answer in the end. In these difficult days each must do what's in their power. And leave what's out of their power to the will of God. In this way our conscience will be clear.

If we don't resist, then our ancestors will arise from their graves. They suffered so much for the Fatherland, and we? What are we doing for it?.. If Christians don't begin to witness their faith, to resist evil, then the destroyers will become even more insolent. But today's Christians are no warriors. If the Church keeps silent, to avoid conflict with the government, if the metropolitans are silent, if the monks hold their peace, then who will speak up?

* * *

Give thanks to God for everything. Try to be manly. Pull yourself together a bit. Do you know what Christians are suffering in other countries? There are such difficulties in Russia! But here many exhibit indifference. There's not enough disposition to kindness, love of devotion.

You see, if we don't begin to make war against evil, to expose those who tempt believers, then the evil will grow larger. If we throw aside fear then the faithful will be emboldened a bit. And those who wage war against the Church will have a harder time.

In the past our nation lived spiritually, so God blessed her, and the saints helped us in miraculous fashion. And we were victorious against our enemies, who always outnumbered us. Today we continue to call ourselves Orthodox Christians, but we don't live Orthodox lives.

* * *

A lukewarm clergy lulls the people to sleep, leaves them in their former condition so they won't be upset. "Look", they say. "By all means don't say that there'll be a war, or the Second Coming, that one must prepare oneself for death. We must not make people alarmed!"

And others speak with a false kindness, saying: "We mustn't expose heretics and their delusions, so as to show our love for them." Today's people are water-soluble. There's no leaven in them.

If I avoid upsetting myself to protect my fleshly comfort then I'm indifferent to holiness! Spiritual meekness is one thing, and softness and indifference are quite another. Some say: "I'm a Christian and therefore I have to be joyful and calm." But they're not Christian. They're simply indifferent. And their joy is only a worldly joy.

He in whom these worldly seeds are present is no spiritual person. A spiritual person consists of nothing but pain. In other words, he's in pain at what's going on, he's in pain for people's condition. And divine comfort is bestowed upon him for his pain.

"He Who Goes Low Goes Sure"

Our goal is to live an Orthodox life, not just to speak or write Orthodox. If the preacher has no personal experience then his sermons won't go to the heart, won't change people. To think like an Orthodox is easy, but to live an Orthodox life requires effort.

Today God tolerates what's going on. Tolerates, so that evil people will be unable to justify themselves. God expects patience, prayer and struggle from us. If you anger when you yourself are offended, your anger is unclean. But if someone is offended in the service of holiness, that means the zeal of God is in him. Indignation can be righteous when it's indignation for God's sake. That's the only justifiable kind of indignation in a person.

It's unseemly to become angry in one's own defense. Resisting evildoers is another matter, however, when it's in defense of serious spiritual matters, when our holy faith, Orthodoxy, is concerned. Then it's your duty. To think of others, to counter the blasphemers in order to defend one's neighbor -- this is pure, because carried out in love.



* * *

Evil lies within us. There is no love in us, so we don't feel all people to be brothers and are tempted by [the knowledge of] their sinful ways. But it's not right when moral failings become known to all. The injunction of the Gospels to "tell it unto the church" (Matt. 18:17) doesn't mean that everything has to become known to everyone. By exposing the moral failings of our brother we arm the enemies of the Church, give them another pretext to escalate the war against Her. And the faith of the weak is shaken in this way too.

If you want to help the Church, then try to mend your own ways, rather than others'. In straightening yourself out you straighten out a particle of the Church. If everyone were to do that then the Church would be in perfect order. But today's people attend to everything under the sun, only not to themselves, because it's easy to teach others, while mending one's own ways requires effort.

* * *

If we expose someone out of love, with pain in our hearts, then a change will occur in his heart whether he understands us or not. But to expose without love, with partiality, only enrages to object of our exposure. Our hostility strikes against his egoism, producing sparks like flint against steel.

If we tolerate our brother out of love, he will feel it. But he also feels our hostility, even if we keep it inside and don't express it. Our hostility arouses alarm in him. We must always ask ourselves: "Why do I want to say what I'm about to say? What is motivating me? Do I really care about my neighbor or do I just want to show him how wonderful I am, to show off a bit?" If someone tries to solve ecclesiastical problems allegedly out of faith, but really thinking of his own advantage, then how can such a person win God's blessing?

* * *

Sweet words and great truths have value when uttered by righteous lips. They take root only in people of good will and clean conscience.

Truth, when used without judgment, can commit a crime. And he who possesses sincerity without reason commits a twofold evil, first against himself, then against others. Because there's no empathy in his sincerity. A Christian must not be a fanatic but have love in his heart for all. He who throws words around carelessly, even true words, does evil.

Veneration is a good thing, and the predisposition for good is also good, but spiritual judgment and breadth are needed to guard against fanaticism, that false companion of reverence.

* * *

Wakefulness and sobriety are needed. All that a person does he must do for the sake of God. Christ must be at the source of every movement. Much attention is required, for when we do something with the aim of pleasing others we gain no benefit.

We ascend to the heavens not through earthly striving but by humbling ourselves spiritually. He who goes low goes sure and never falls. Ours is an age of sensationalism and hullabaloo. But the spiritual life is not noisy. Divine enlightenment is required and when it's not there the person abides in darkness. He may act out of good intentions but create many problems in his confusion, both for the Church and for society.

There was a time when the Holy Spirit enlightened us and showed us the way. A grand business! Today it finds no reason to descend to us. Difficult years are ahead. The Old Testament Tower of Babel was child's play compared with our age.

The Seal of the Antichrist Becomes a Reality

It's possible that you'll live through much which is described in the Book of Revelations. Much is coming to the surface, little by little. The situation is horrible. Madness has gone beyond all bounds. Apostasy is upon us, and now the only thing left is for the 'son of perdition' (2 Thess. 2:3) to come.

The world has turned into a madhouse A great confusion will reign, in which each government will begin to do whatever comes into its head. We'll see how the most unlikely, the most insane, events will happen. The only good thing is that these events will happen in very quick succession.

Ecumenism, common markets, a one-world government, a single made-to-order religion: such is the plan of these devils. The Zionists are already preparing their messiah. For them the false-messiah will be king, will rule here, on earth.

A great discord will arise. In this discord everyone will clamor for a king to save them. At that moment they'll offer up their man, who'll say: "I'm the Imam, I'm the fifth Buddha, I'm the Christ whom Christians are awaiting. I'm the one whom the Jehovah's Witnesses have been waiting for. I'm the Jewish messiah."

* * *

Difficult times are ahead. Great trials await us. Christians will suffer great persecutions. Meanwhile, it's obvious that people don't understand that we're on the verge of the end times, that the seal of the Antichrist is becoming a reality. As if nothing's happening. That's why Holy Scripture says that even the chosen will be deceived.

The Zionists want to rule the earth. To achieve their ends they use black magic and satanism. They regard satan-worship as a means to gain the strength they need to carry out their plans. They want to rule the earth using satanic power. God is not something they take into account.

One sign that the fulfillment of prophecy is near will be the destruction of the Mosque of Omar in Jerusalem. They'll destroy it in order to restore the Temple of Solomon which used to be on the same place. In the end the Jews will pronounce the Antichrist messiah in this rebuilt temple.

The rabbis know that the true Messiah has already come and that they crucified Him. They know this, and yet they are blinded by egoism and fanaticism.

* * *

Two thousand years ago it was written in the Book of Revelations that people will be marked with the number '666'. As Holy Scripture says, the ancient Hebrews laid a tax on the peoples they conquered in various wars. The yearly tax was equal to 666 talents of gold. (3 Kings 10:14, 2 Chronicles 9:13.) Today, in order to subjugate the whole world they'll once again introduce the old tax number linked to their glorious past. That is, '666' is the number of mammon.

Everything is going as planned. They put the number a long time ago on credit cards. As a result, he who is not marked with the number '666' will be unable to buy, sell, get a loan, or find work.

* * *

Providence tells me that the Antichrist wants to subjugate the world using this system. It will be foisted upon people with the help of the mechanisms which control the world economy, for only those who receive the mark, an image with the number '666', will be able to take part in economic life.

The mark will be an image which will first be placed on all products, and then people will be compelled to wear it on their hand or forehead. Little by little, after the introduction of ID cards with the three sixes, after the creation of a personal dossier, they'll use cunning to introduce the mark.

In Brussels a whole palace with three sixes has been built to house a central computer. This computer can keep track of billions of people. And we Orthodox are resisting this because we don't want the Antichrist and we don't want dictatorship either.

"The most we can suffer is martyrdom."

There will be three and a half hard years. Those who don't agree with the system will have a rough time. They'll constantly be trying to imprison them, using any pretext they can find. They won't torture anyone, but without the mark it will simply be impossible for a person to live. "You're suffering without the mark", they'll say. "And if you had just accepted it you would have had no difficulties."

For this reason, by learning to life a simple, moderate life here and now you'll be able to get through those years. By getting a little bit of land, raising a little wheat and some potatoes, planting some olive trees, and keeping animals of some sort, a goat or chickens, the Christian will be able to feed his family. Stockpiling is of little use: Food doesn't keep for long before spoiling.

But these oppressions will not last for long: three, three and a half years. For the sake of the chosen the days will be hastened. God won't leave a person without help. Tomorrow thunder will strike, and the brief dictatorship of the Antichrist-satan will come. Then Christ will intervene, will give the whole anti-Christian system a good shaking up. He'll trample upon evil and turn everything to good use in the end.

- And if someone receives the mark unknowingly?

It'd be better to say "uncaringly". How can one be unknowing, when everything is crystal clear? And if a person doesn't know, then he should become interested and find out. By accepting the mark, even unknowingly, a person loses Divine Grace and gives himself up to demonic influence. When a priest immerses the infant in the baptismal font, the infant receives the Holy Spirit without knowing it, and Divine Grace begins to abide in him.

Some people say: "What's destined by God to be will be. What business is it of ours?"

They can say whatever they want, but in reality it's not like that! Unfortunately, some modern priests diaper their flock like infants, to keep them from getting upset. "What's going on today isn't important", they say. "Don't be alarmed. All you need is to have faith in your hearts." Or they scold: "Don't speak on that topic, about ID cards or the mark of the beast. It will just upset people." If they were to say instead: "Let's try to live more spiritually, to be nearer to Christ and not to be afraid of anything. You see, the most we can suffer is martyrdom," then they'd at least be preparing their flock for the coming tribulations.

Knowing the truth, a person will begin to mull things over and shake himself out of his sleep. What's going on will begin to cause him pain. He'll begin to pray and to be on his guard, so as to not fall into that trap.

* * *

What do we see now? It's bad enough that cunning 'interpreters of Scripture' are commenting prophecy after their own fashion. They're representatives of the clergy, but they're more cowardly than lay people. And it would behoove them to exhibit a healthy spiritual unease and help Christians by sowing beneficial concern so they'll be strengthened in their faith and receive divine consolation.

I'm amazed: Doesn't what's happening give them any cause for concern? And why don't they at least add a question mark to the interpretations they come up with? And if they help the Antichrist and the mark, lead other souls to perdition?

No, behind the "perfected credit card system", behind "computerized security" lurks worldwide dictatorship and the yoke of the Antichrist.

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.

"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

(Rev. 13:16-18)


"You must be ready for death."

The world has lost control of itself. Honor and self-sacrifice have abandoned people. The taste of sacrificial joy is unknown to today's people, and that's why they're so tortured. For only when you co-participate in the pain of another do miracles happen.

If a person doesn't cultivate in himself the spirit of self-sacrifice then he thinks only of himself and doesn't receive Divine Grace. The more a person forgets himself, the more God remembers him Those who die heroically don't really die. And where there's no heroism nothing worthwhile can be expected.

Our time is like a bubbling and steaming cauldron. One needs temperament, audacity, courage. Take care not to be caught unprepared, if something is to happen. Start getting ready now so that you'll be able to resist difficulties. Christ Himself tells us: "Therefore be ye also ready" (Matt. 24:44), doesn't He? Today, living in such complicated times, we have to be not merely ready, but triply ready, at the minimum!

Possibly we may meet not only with sudden death, but with other dangers. So let's drive away the desire to arrange our lives comfortably! May love of honor and the spirit of self-sacrifice live in us.

* * *

I see that something is in the works, that something lies just around the corner, but it's constantly being put off. Little delays all the time. Who's creating the delays? God? Another month passes, then another couple of months! That's how it all goes. But since we know what awaits us, let's develop love in ourselves, to the degree that we can. That's the main thing: for true brotherly love to exist between us. Kindness, love -- that's strength! Guard the secret as well as you can and don't indulge in excessive frankness. If "he and I and the bell-ringer" are all in on the secret, then what will come of that?

Death in battle adds greatly to God's mercy, for a person who dies the death of the brave sacrifices himself to defend others. Those who give up their lives out of pure love in order to defend their neighbor are imitating Christ. These people are supreme heroes. They arouse fear in our enemies. Death herself trembles before them, because they scorn her due to their great love, and attain immortality in this fashion, finding the key to eternity under the gravestone. They enter into eternal blessedness without difficulty.

That's why I say to you: Cultivate self-sacrifice, brotherly love. May each of you attain a spiritual condition which will allow you to get out of difficult situations. Without a spiritual condition a person loses courage, because he loves himself. He can renounce Christ, betray Him.

You must be ready for death. We believe that nothing is in vain, that our sacrifice has meaning.

* * *

Remove your "I" from everything you do. The person who leaves his "I" rises above the earth, moves in another atmosphere. As long as he remains inside himself he cannot become a heavenly being.

There is no spiritual life without sacrifice. Try to remember, at least a little bit, that death exists. And since we'll die in any case, let's not take care of ourselves too much. Look after your health, but not to the degree where you begin to bow down before your peace and well-being. I'm not asking anyone to throw themselves headlong into dangerous adventures, but you have to have at least a bit of heroism, my brother!..

Feats are committed not by the tall in size but by the audacious, the heartfelt, and the self-sacrificing. There's no barbarity in spiritual audacity. Such people don't fire at the enemy, but over his head, forcing him to surrender. A kind man prefers being killed to killing. The harmonious person is prepared for accepting divine powers.

The mean, the cowardly, and the small of spirit, on the other hand, use impudence to hide their fear. They're afraid of themselves as well as others and shoot without stopping. Courage and audacity are one thing; criminality and malice quite another. In order to succeed at anything one needs a wild streak, in the positive sense. He who lacks this wild streak can become neither a hero nor a saint. The heart must become uncalculating.

* * *

In our age audacity has become a rarity. Water, not blood, flows in people's veins. So if a war were to break out, God forbid, many would simply die of fright while others would lose heart, because they're used to an easy life. Fear is necessary when it helps a person turn to God. Fear from lack of faith, from lack of trust in God, on the other hand, is ruinous.

Such fear is driven out by audacity. We must remember: The more a person fears, the more he is tempted by the enemy. If a person refuses to strive to become courageous, and doesn't strive for real love, then when a difficult situation arises he'll become a laughingstock.

The warrior takes joy in the fact that he's dying so that others won't have to. If you dispose yourself this way then nothing will be frightening. Courage is born from much love, kindness and self-sacrifice. Today people don't even want to hear about death. However, he doesn't remember about death is living outside of reality. Those who fear death and love life's vanities are in a state of spiritual stagnation. Bold people, who always keep death before them and think about it constantly, on the other hand, conquer vanity and begin to live in eternity and heavenly joy while still here on earth.

May he who fights in the war for Faith and Fatherland cross himself and not fear, for God is his helper! God Himself will decide whether he is to die or to live. One needs to trust God, not oneself.

The Russians will take Turkey. The Chinese will cross the Euphrates.

Providence tells me that many events will happen: The Russians will take Turkey and Turkey will disappear from the world map because a third of the Turks will become Christians, another third will die in the war and another third will leave for Mesopotamia.

The Mid-East will become a theater of a war in which the Russians will take place. Much blood will be spilled. The Chinese, with an army of 200 million, will cross the Euphrates and go all the way to Jerusalem. The sign that this event is approaching will be the destruction of the Mosque of Omar, for its destruction will mark the beginning of work by the Jews to rebuild the Temple of Solomon, which was built on the same spot.

There will be a great war between Russians and Europeans, and much blood will be spilled. Greece won't play a leading role in that war, but they'll give her Constantinople. Not because the Russians adore the Greeks, but because no better solution will be found. The city will be handed over to the Greek Army even before it has a chance to get there.

The Jews, inasmuch as they'll have great power and the help of the European leadership, will become proud and insolent beyond measure and conduct themselves shamelessly. They'll try to rule Europe.

They'll play all sorts of tricks, but the resulting persecutions will lead Christians to unite completely. However, they won't unite in the way desired by those who are now engaging in various machinations to create a single church united under a single religious leadership. Christians will unite because the unfolding situation will naturally separate the sheep from the goats. Then the prophecy: "one flock and one shepherd" will actually come to pass.

* * *

Don't give in to panic. Cowards are of use to no one. God looks at a person's situation and helps him. We have to remain cold-blooded and use our brains. No matter what happens, we must continue to pray, think and act. It's best to always stand up to a difficult situation using spiritual means. However that spiritual boldness which is born of holiness and striving towards God is missing today, as is the natural boldness needed in order not to turn coward in the face of danger.

In order to hold back a great evil, great holiness is needed. A spiritual person can hold back evil and help others. In the spiritual life the biggest coward can attain great courage by entrusting himself to Christ and His divine help. He can go to the front lines, do battle with the enemy, and win! So therefore we will fear God alone, not people, no matter how evil they may be. The fear of God makes any coward into a hero! A person becomes fearless to the extent he unites with God.

Rab Bozii
Stefan-Igor H.R.



#2 Effie Ganatsios

Effie Ganatsios

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 31 March 2009 - 09:13 AM

Some of the above is in his books but some is completely unknown to me.

I may be wrong but it seems to me that some of his actual words have been used but that there has been a lot added.

I need to check this.

Effie

#3 Effie Ganatsios

Effie Ganatsios

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 31 March 2009 - 09:30 AM

I've just been googling the above text on the Internet. It's all over the place, even the incorrect spelling of his name is the same on most of these sites.

I wouldn't trust these texts. It would be best if you bought his books and read for yourself what he wrote. Of course, some of these books have been written by the nuns of Souroti monastery and are based on what they remember of his words. He himself, has written his letters and two small pamphlets - one about his godfather Arsenios. I may have missed something because I am writing from memory.

Effie

#4 Fabio Lins

Fabio Lins

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts

Posted 31 March 2009 - 02:44 PM

Thank you, Effie!

I too thought it was a bit strange and not similar in style to other quotes from him that I had seen. It was just that I was talking to some friends about Orthodox modern prophecies and found that text. I will not forward it though. :)

#5 Milan T.

Milan T.

    Junior Poster

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 07 May 2009 - 05:51 AM

This might be from the book

Nicolae Zurnazoglu
Cuviosul Paisie Aghioritul - Marturii ale inchinatorilor
(in Romanian - translated from original Greek book)

I would translate it as
"witness of the faithful" or "witnessing of pilgrims"


I haven't read it nor have I found it in English or Serbian, but I've heard about it from a Romanian friend.

#6 Milan T.

Milan T.

    Junior Poster

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 07 May 2009 - 06:15 PM

I asked my friend and this is really from the book I mentioned.

If anyone finds out where the English translation of the book can be found, please post the info here - I would be very happy to know about it.

Milan

#7 Vasiliki D.

Vasiliki D.

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 674 posts

Posted 07 May 2009 - 11:44 PM

I've just been googling the above text on the Internet. It's all over the place, even the incorrect spelling of his name is the same on most of these sites.

I wouldn't trust these texts. It would be best if you bought his books and read for yourself what he wrote. Of course, some of these books have been written by the nuns of Souroti monastery and are based on what they remember of his words. He himself, has written his letters and two small pamphlets - one about his godfather Arsenios. I may have missed something because I am writing from memory.

Effie


Trivia Fact: The nuns from the Souroti monastery did not have the elders permission, or blessing, to tape him (on many occassions) and they still went ahead and did it and put these recordings into the book. Infact, inside the book it says that they had his blessing and permission to create this book filled with his recordings - they dont and in a curious twist the sisters of this monastery have acted out of disobedience to the Elder himself ...

Most people reading my post in response to this thread will probably think ... and who cares.

However, as my Spiritual father explained to me (and he is direct connected to Elder Porfyrios and has written to the Sisters of this monastery on many occassions and their acting Bishop) many of the items in the book are taken "out of context" and have not been blessed by the Elder in the first instance for commercial use ...

Take this post as you will ... I feel obligated to pass this information on since it highlights that if the sisters (whom the Elder loved and was in close communion with) have created a book on the Elder (without his permission) - imagine how many other people who have been in contact with the Elder have gone ahead and posted information (and probably extremally out of context) on the intranet without his knowledge, awareness and blessing AND without evidence that these are his exact words (at least the sisters have the recordings to prove what they have written).

Edited by Vasiliki D., 07 May 2009 - 11:56 PM.
linked my post back to original thread.


#8 Effie Ganatsios

Effie Ganatsios

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 08 May 2009 - 08:39 AM

My friend, one of Elder Paisios' "children" has also mentioned that something strange happened. Elder Paisios wanted to be buried on the Holy Mountain, but his nuns presented his signed permission to bury him on the grounds of the Souroti monastery.

I cannot give an opinion on what did or didn't happen but, unfortunately, there have been rumours of disagreements.

All I can say is that Paisios was critical of the commercialisation of the Tinos Panayia and the St. Raphael monastery but the same thing seems to be happening to the Souroti monastery.

The monastery and grounds are very beautiful but a huge amount of money has been spent on it. I assume this money is from those who visit Elder Paisios' grave.

It's sad that there will always be people, parasites really, who take advantage of others who have struggled and fought for an ideal or for a personal goal, in order to benefit from their struggles after their death. We see it happen all the time, and not only to holy people.

I know that elder Paisios and Mother Gavriela kept a lot of their experiences to themselves, considering them too precious to share or perhaps being instructed to keep them secret. One thing that Elder Paisios said and that I always remember is that in his visions of the Panayia, She most resembled the icon of the Jerusalem Theotokos (I have included a copy of it in my photo album on this forum).

Effie

#9 Fr Seraphim (Black)

Fr Seraphim (Black)

    Retired member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 366 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 08 May 2009 - 09:53 AM

Never, never, have I witnessed a simple, self-effacing, humble, true ascetic turned into the complete opposite.

I had the blessing to know this kind, Christ-loving monk, but I confess his so-called disciples have done nothing but dis-service to his holy memory.

I do not know why such a long-winded shameful 'epistle' was allowed to be placed on Monachos, which is simply one of the few respectful harbours were one can anchor one's boat and pass time with fellow pilgrims on the Internet.

On the Holy Mountain and elsewhere you will find seemingly well-meaning people who have become consumed, even (God forbid) possessed by this folly of numbers and unfounded fear.

Does this document inspire prayer? Does this document inspire love? Does this document inspire tears of compassion and an appetite for prayer for the homeless, the widows, the outcasts, those ignored by the world?

This document does none of the above.

Simply put: the monk I knew, whose very door I would approach with such joy; could never have produced such a mish-mash of this and that...

Instead of calmly reading Scripture, the Psalms, the Lives of our Holy Mothers and Fathers, people have fallen into absolute prelest, due to this utter foolishness.

The devil has found his usual way of wasting peoples' time. "Now let us spend endless hours searching browsers for clues".

Better still: go to Church and offer 'wasted time' for self-giving kenosis. Love your enemy; pray for those who offend you; give thanks for those who slander you - these are the actions of those who are aiding you in finding your salvation.

Where is salvation? Humility, repentance, self-condemnation...prayer, ceaseless prayer accompanied by tears for other people.

Not nonsense like this.

This is not the way of an Orthodox Monk who spent so many years on Agion Oros.

#10 Owen Jones

Owen Jones

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,341 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 08 May 2009 - 11:49 AM

Let's all hope it's a fake.

#11 AnastasiosPapadopoulos

AnastasiosPapadopoulos

    Junior Poster

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 27 January 2012 - 01:27 AM

Hi I found about your forum through a google search, which sent me to this thread,even though it's old, I'd like to add some details.
The above text isn't fake , it's from a letter written by Elder Paisios himself.This way he wanted all the faithful christians in the greek orthodox church in Greece to know that these were his words and writings.The 6 page letter is available freely on the internet
Here is the first page
Attached File  simia1.JPG   69.13K   82 downloads

and his characteristic signature, ending

With a lot of pain and love in / of ? Christ,
Monk Paisios
Attached File  telossim.JPG   17.43K   78 downloads

I can upload somewhere the full pdf if needed.

#12 Paul Cowan

Paul Cowan

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,064 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 27 January 2012 - 04:11 AM

How about an English version?

#13 Effie Ganatsios

Effie Ganatsios

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 27 January 2012 - 08:03 AM

Anastasie, below is the English translation of the letter in Greek that you posted and that Elder Paisios left us :

The Sign of the Times 666
by Elder Paisios of Mt Athos of ever-blessed memory


After the devil's cataclysm, God's sunshine will appear.

Behind the worldly spirit of today's "freedom," the lack of respect for the Church of Christ, older people,
parents and teachers who have fear of God, is hidden spiritual slavery, anxiety and anarchy which lead the
world to an impasse, the destruction of man's body and soul.

Therefore, behind the perfect system of the computerised "convenience cards", is hidden the universal
dictatorship, the slavery of the Antichrist. Also "he causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, free
and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except
one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who
has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: his number is 666" (Rev
13:16-18).

St. Andreas of Caesarea writes, "On the dirty name of the Antichrist. Time and experience will reveal to
those who are vigilant the accuracy of the numbers and anything else written about him ... but divine grace
did not wish that the name of the scourge be written in the Holy Bible; a lot will be found written on the
subject..."

Oddly enough, many spiritual people, apart from the fact that they give their own interpretations on this
issue, are afraid of the evolving secular filing-system. They should also be concerned in a spiritual way,
however, and help Christians by alerting them positively on the subject and strengthen their faith, so that they
can feel God's consolation.

I wonder! Don't they question what is going on? Why don't they put a question mark next to their mind's
interpretations? What if they help the Antichrist in marking more people? How can they sway these people
from losing their souls? "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to
deceive, if possible, even the elect" (Mk 13:22).

Those who give their own interpretations will be led astray.

Things are very clear. The 'beast-with 666' in Brussels has swallowed almost all the countries in its
computers. The card, the identification cards, the introduction to the mark, what do they indicate?
Unfortunately, we only listen to the radio when we want to hear the weather report.

What will Christ tell us? "Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern
the signs of the times" (Mt 16:3).

After the card, the identification cards and the establishment of the filing-system, they will maliciously
proceed to the marking by announcing on Television that someone stole another person's card and withdrew
all his money from his bank account. On the other hand, they will advertise the "perfect system", the marking
of the Antichrist's name, 666, on the hand and forehead with laser beams which will not be externally
detectable.

Unfortunately, some that think of themselves as knowledgeable will swaddle (bind) "their spiritual children,
as if they were babies in order to console them by telling them 'it doesn't matter, it's nothing, as long as you
have faith inside you'. While we see that St. Peter externally denied Christ, and it was a denial, they deny the
holy mark of Christ, which was granted to them through the Holy Baptism - the Seal of the gift of the Holy
Spirit", by accepting the mark of the Antichrist. These will claim they have Christ inside them!

Unfortunately, some "knowledgeable" people shared the same logic during the years of the holy martyrs and
tried to change the minds of the prospective martyrs. St. Basil the Great writes, in his speech on Martyr
Gordios, "many people were being irrational by trying to convince the martyr to deny Christ with his words
only, and keep his faith in his soul, in his inner disposition, claiming that God does not pay attention to our
words but to our disposition. However, martyr Gordios was rigid in his belief and replied, "the tongue,
which is created by Christ, cannot bear to utter anything against Him... Do not deceive yourselves, God
cannot be mocked, he judges us according to our own mouth, he justifies us by our words, and by our
words, he convicts us".

Also, Dekios had issued a decree ordering Christians to avow the religion of paganism; those who did and
offered a sacrifice to the idols, were granted a certificate and thus were saved from martyrdom. The Church
considers these people who denied Christ, together with those who gave money to the committee of pagans
and took the certificate without denying Christ, the so-called "liveloforoi", as being apostates and sinners.

We have many examples, such as the miracle of St. Theodoros that is celebrated every year on the
Saturday of the First Week of the Great Lent. "Julian, the Apostate, knowing that Christians are cleansed
more by fasting strictly during the First Week of the Great Lent, which for this reason we call Pure Week,
chose to pollute them during this specific period. He, therefore, secretly ordered that food, which had been
polluted by the blood of the idols' sacrifices, be put out in the market place during this week. By holy
appearance Martyr Theodoros appeared to Archbishop of Constantinople Evdoxios in his sleep. The
martyr revealed the mystical message to the Archbishop and asked him to gather the faithful people
immediately on Monday morning, and alert them not to eat from this food. Instead, he offered them "kolliva"
(boiled wheat given at memorial services) to replace the shortage of food. The aim of the Apostate was thus
annulled and the devout people were protected and kept pure.

Abstaining from the pollution of the idols is a rule of the Apostles. "…The apostles and the elders were
gathered together to consider this matter …abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,
from things strangled, and from blood" (Acts 15:6, 20).

Despite what I just reported, unfortunately, we hear today a lot of nonsense from those considered
"knowledgeable". Some people say, "I will accept the identification card with the number 666, but I will put
the sign of the Cross next to it". Others say, "I will accept being marked on the forehead with the number
666, but I will also put the sign of the Cross next to it". They think that by this way they can be sanctified,
but this is only an illusion.

Only what is accepted with Holy Water is sanctified. For instance, water can be blessed and become Holy
Water. Urine cannot be sanctified. A stone can be turned into bread by a miracle. Whatever is dirty, cannot
be sanctified. Therefore, putting the sign of the cross next to it cannot sanctify the symbol of the Antichrist
(devil) on our identification card, our head or hand.

We have the power of the Holy Cross (our holy symbol) and the divine grace of Christ, only as long as we
have the holy marking of the Holy Baptism. In other words, we have denied the devil and sided with Christ,
and received the Holy Marking (the seal of the Gift of the Holy Spirit).

May God enlighten us. With lots of pain and love in Christ.
Amen.

Mount Athos, Panagouda Cell of Koutloumousiou Monastery, Saturday, First Week of Lent, 1987"

I believe this English translation is accurate because I compared it with the Greek text. The letter seems to be genuine because I compared the writing with that of his "spiritual will" written just before his death.

Greece's "government" is again trying to establish their infamous "citizen's card". We have been subjected to so many indignities by these no-hopers that one more is nothing to them.

#14 Julia Hayes

Julia Hayes

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 33 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 27 January 2012 - 12:20 PM

As the abbot of a monastery once said to me, one has to be very wary of a lot of things attributed to Elder Paisios. Years after his death people are still coming out with books of prophecies he supposedly said to them.

#15 AnastasiosPapadopoulos

AnastasiosPapadopoulos

    Junior Poster

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 27 January 2012 - 03:52 PM

As the abbot of a monastery once said to me, one has to be very wary of a lot of things attributed to Elder Paisios. Years after his death people are still coming out with books of prophecies he supposedly said to them.



I have neglected a lot my religious obligations and duties lately, but I can ensure you, that many testimonies from Elder Paisios and other enlighted persons have been kept unwritten or talked only between familiars and relatives of the witnesses. A second book with additional testimonies is about to be published from the publications of Mr. Zunartzoglou. In it there are testimonies by the names of the witnesses , regarding the current socioeconomical and political situation in Greece,with references to politicians and the awaited events after the default and the stop in payments and salaries that we all fear and know is coming.

Personally I have heard a testimony from second hand. Around the Elder Paisios were many Athonite fathers, close to him.
One of these fathers , who talked and wrote about Elder Paisios, said a thing to a very close cleric of mine. It was something the Elder said regarding some events around the time that Nato troops will advance to the lands of Asia Minor.

It's not important that all these testimonies about future should be written in a communication medium ( book,internet,tv etc).
Similar things I'm sure have been told by fathers or mothers in other orthodox countries , churches, in Russia or even Usa etc.When these things were said, I believe the purpose was only for the personal interest or "betterment" of the person that the testimony was originally given to. In an example let's say that an enlighted orthodox cleric named X , in any part of the world in any orthodox parish , says to a spiritual child of his that " John this difficulty will happen to you in the future when this event will happen but you will have to be patient,have faith and you will overcome it".

Even if the event will change the lives of many of us,the tesimony is personal only for "John" to strengthen his faith or to give him hope in that time of his need to overcome the difficulty that he or his family with face.It's not orthodox to write all these in a book or trying to figure our times and dates that future events will happen.The orthodox christians aren't witnesses of jehobah to hunt prophecy dates.

Mrs Hayes on your reply it seems that you reside in Greece.The books you're refering to as I understand must be some fallacies published by Liakopoulos press regarding the fake story of Trachoni "revelations" in Cyprus. Which was condemned by the Church of Cyprus. In these books the writers are mixing some testimonies from the original books of father Christodoulos on Elder Paisios with their own fabricated stories.

There is a small book published many years ago by an Athonite Monk saying some things the Elder said regarding the turkish-russian conflict, it wasn't published in english. Maybe some greeks wrote in the internet excerpts on this, and this caused questions.

Here is the site of the publisher of the book "Elder Paisios 1924-1974 testimonies from witnesses"
http://agiotokos-kappadokia.gr/2011/09/16/1-θέσεις-απόψεις-για-τα-επερχόμενα/#more-2453


with some excerpts from the 2nd book that they will publish in the coming months.

After the events here with the default, all the cuts in payments , the heavy and unjust taxes , the social arrest, the rising criminality, the unstopping waves of illegal immigrants etc , people are very worried and the sayings of Elder Paisios are openly discussed on the internet, facebook, newspapers, tvs etc. You can see it even in the rising views and comments on youtube videos about prophecies or on tv shows.

People are discussing on what Elder Joshef of Vatopaidi said about the default the stop of payments and the turkish attack.
I know that the forum is not for politics , after the discovery of enormous natural gas reserves in Cyprus Turkey has been very aggressive (regarding the Exclusive Economic Zones, the island of Castelorizo) , Turkey has bought from Germany attacking bridges that can overcome the natural barrier of Evros river in our mutual borders and moved to Eastern Thrace their best tanks and their military formations there have taken offensive positions. South Crete is talked in the press of having oil reserves at least half of what Alaska has. All these have made the people very worried, and the talk and writing on internet and the press around Saint Kosmas' prophecies, Elder Paisios sayings and what other enlighted people of Christ said.Forgive my writing for grammar or syntactic errors, I'm not fluent in English.

Another good site is that of the Athonite monk Leontios from the monastery of Saint Dionysios of Mount Athos, it's at http://www.imdleo.gr and has english texts with the teachings of Saint Kosmas the Aetolian.

Forgive me for this long message.

Edited by Olga, 28 January 2012 - 03:47 AM.
added paragraph spaces for wase of reading


#16 Jason Hunt

Jason Hunt

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 165 posts

Posted 27 January 2012 - 05:40 PM

After reading what Elder Paisios wrote concerning the end times, Elder Porphyrios wrote a letter to him saying that it is not for him to speak of such things but that God will enlighten holy bishops to speak of such matters when it becomes necessary to speak of such things. In obedience to Elder Porphyrios, Elder Paisios agreed to refrain from writing about the end times. From this it seems that Elder Porphyrios did not believe that Elder Paisios was enlightened by God concerning these matters, despite Elder Porphyrios' great reverence for Elder Paisios. This letter of Elder Porphyrios to Elder Paisios is still preserved in one of the monasteries on Mt. Athos, but I'm not sure which one. This subject is related in an interview of Metropolitan Neophytos of Morphu who personally knew Elders Porphyrios, Iakkovos of Evia, and Evmenios. For an English translation of this interview, go to:

http://www.pantokrat...wdownload&cid=9

The subject of the letter of Elder Porphyrios to Elder Paisios can be found on the third talk entitled "03 Greek Elders-Evmenios" starting at 22:04. Met Neophytos begins speaking about the subject of the end times around 15:58. It is significant, according to Met Neophytos, that Elders Iakovos and Porphyrios never spoke concerning the end times and, despite their clairvoyance, claimed that God had revealed nothing to them concerning the end times or the Antichrist.

#17 AnastasiosPapadopoulos

AnastasiosPapadopoulos

    Junior Poster

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 27 January 2012 - 09:28 PM

Hi I'm not that well aware of this incident you mention ( I don't doubt it).Even Elder Porphyrios said certain things that I'm sure a lot are kept to few.When the former Arcbishop Christodoulos died one of these was mentioned in the orthodox press here, he had said that the new Archbishop would serve the Church for 10 years, a time which would be intense or turbulent?I don't remember it exactly.I'm hearing the .mp3 file you mentioned and I believe it might refer to the elder Eymenios Saridakis.
On a book about elder Eymenios he mentions an incident.
-Once Elder Eymenios said that a 3rd world war would happen in the lands of Germany,Russia in Ukraine."We were all on the front". "What do you mean by all?" "All,there was father Porphyrios,father Iakovos,father Paisios, all the monks we went to the front".The writer then mentions that Elder Eymenios meant a spiritual front.And then Elder Eymenios says "And I was crying, crying.Father Porphyrios saw me and said Don't cry father Eymenios like that,nothing will happen,Panagia will make mercy". This is the testimony from Metropolitan Neophytos of Morphu.In the end the Metropolitan mentions that they - the Elders - knew each other, they were a company.

I'm hearing the talk now, Elder Paisios was a heartly patriot , he loved his country very much , he lived in his childhood the echo of the genocide in Asia Minor and I think that this love made him to tell some things about Constantinople and the difficulties in those years to the people that visited him.

One of the testimonies in the book from Mr. Zournatzoglou , is mentioned the dialog between a senior officer in the greek army and Elder Paisios.The officer basically said that he was tired and wanted to resign and Elder Paisios encouraged him to stay and told him that he would the the Chief of Staffs , if I say it correctly at the time of the turkish attack to Greece.
And in 2008 a rumor starting circulating that the then Chief of Staffs was that officer.The year passed, and that general was forced to resign by the ministry of defence ( in one political comment it's said that he made favors for the minister of For.Aff. then and another that in the summer of 2009 if I remember correctly the Turks were trying to provoke and occupy some small islet in the Aegean and this Chief of Staffs moved special forces to many islets and small islands.Either the cowardice of the greek political leadership or uncle sam's hand threw him out.The officer was asked and refused that he knew the Elder , or that he was that officer.
These bad rumors and the persistence of people with dates of prophecies are the problem.

There's one cleric Father Stratigopoulos who has a radio show for young people.His speeches are on the site floga.gr and in 2009 the rumors of fear of war made him do a comment. At the end of the speech in greek he says that 15 years ago - from the time of his speech,I don't know when the speech was given - Elder Paisios informed of a war that summer to happen between greece and turkey, he mentions that this war never happened because people prayed to God for it.The Elder's intention was to make people pray to avoid war.

The original post in this thread is a collage , pieces from this handwritten text from Elder Paisios and pieces of testimonies from the book of Mr.Zournatzoglou.
People here are very concerned and anxious of the difficult situation and the provocations from our "neighbors".They try to explain in their way the prophecies.The most common is about Saint Kosmas examilia or six miles.Elder Paisios explained this to be the six nautical miles in sea, but the name examilia exists as a place name in Thessaloniki in the Isthmos of Peloponisos near Corinth and somewhere else.

On the excerpts of the book to be published that I mention on the previous post the witnesses say that Elder Paisios mentioned about the former prime minister george papandreou, that he would destroy,burn greece as a primeminister.also it is mentioned for USA as a saying of Elder Porphyrios from 1985 that when the governance of the United States of America is taken by a black president, their destruction will come.
By all these people are afraid.They keep wondering if it is now with Obama as a president if he will attack Iran etc.They're worried of what Saint Kosmas said , that if the war is "caught" / happens from above you'll be destroyed , if from below you'll be saved.They're anxious is Kossovo the above mentioned state?Is Syria or Iran the below?That's a question for many.

The text is in polytonic greek and google translation might not work for the entire page, if you want to read it you'd better copy-paste the text instead of the site link.At least on my chrome browser it doesn't work.

And your comment is correct.Even if the Antichrist comes tomorrow my death might be today, I don't have a contract on how long I'll live.The judgement for me comes then, that will be the critical time, I must be vigilant and always control myself and my acts, be on repentance.And here everyone recommends us only this : repentance.But I don't see it coming judging first from myself.

#18 Effie Ganatsios

Effie Ganatsios

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,725 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:46 AM

I............................................
Forgive me for this long message.


There is no reason to ask forgiveness, Anastasie. Only those living in Greece and experiencing what is happening here can understand what we are going through. A lot of strange things are happening, things that just don't make sense. We are being beaten into the ground by men who are traitors to their country and our good name is also being destroyed throughout the world. Those of us who hope in God, while working hard to keep our sanity, do not need to apologize if we acknowledge that some of what is happening was predicted many years before by those close to God. They give us hope. I agree that it is wise to be vεry careful about what is available on the Internet because you cannot be sure that it is authentic.

We will never lose hope, because we are Greek. Up here in Northern Greece, we were enslaved by the Turks for over 500 years. We gained our freedom in 1912. Our country was destroyed by the Turks, but we managed to survive. The same thing will happen now. Our faith, our love of God, our love of family, will carry us through. Glory to God - Δοξα σε ο Θεος.

Ευτερπη

#19 Alice

Alice

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 673 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 28 January 2012 - 03:00 PM

Dear Anastasie,

As Effie says, there is no reason to apologize! You have offered much to this thread! (Also, your English is excellent!)

In Christ,
Alice

Edited by Alice, 28 January 2012 - 03:23 PM.


#20 Father David Moser

Father David Moser

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 3,581 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member
  • Verified Cleric

Posted 28 January 2012 - 04:09 PM

I would ask that we keep this thread on the topic of Elder Paisios' comments about the end times and try to refrain from letting it devolve into commentary on Greek/European/Mediterranean politics. I know there is a lot of overlap and that some comments about current affairs, etc are on topic - but just be careful and circumspect to keep everything on track.

Fr David




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users