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Which version of the bible to use?


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#1 Gloria

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 03:03 PM

What Bible do you use/recommend? I have always used the King James Bible, but I know there are more complete Bibles.

Thanks to everyone in advance.

#2 D. W. Dickens

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 04:16 PM

All Bibles (apart from the paraphrase ones) are good and all are bad (though I've even read the Good News with Apocrypha and not regretted it horribly). Obviously all these are works of the times, persons and ecclesial politics of the day. Even the knew so-called "Orthodox Study Bible", "Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible" and "NET: New English Translation of the LXX" all have their quirks both good and bad.

KJV is fine, if that's what you're used to. After converting to Orthodoxy is seems the only real way to study the scriptures thoroughly (scholarly) is to learn Greek (which I have yet to set my mind to). I suppose I'll leave that heavy lifting to brighter minds than mine.

#3 Nathaniel Woon

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 04:40 PM

What would u say are the quirks or the EOB?

#4 Ryan

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 04:42 PM

I haven't looked much at the EOB, but I do find it annoying and pedantic that they say "the Word was what God was" instead of "the Word was God."

#5 Brian Patrick Mitchell

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 04:54 PM

I have always used the King James Bible, but I know there are more complete Bibles.


Actually, the King James is more complete than most modern Protestant Bibles, which leave out a lot of verses and passages that are found in most Greek manuscripts. I prefer King James myself. The language is more memorable and more respectful. For its purpose, "Fear not, for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy" is better stylistically than "Don't be afraid, because, look, I've got good news that will make everybody happy." Even the New King James tends toward the latter, changing "Fear not" to "Don't be afraid."

It also helps to be able to distinguish the singular from the plural in the second person. In Exodus 33, Moses asks God, “Wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? Is it not in that thou goest with us?” God replies, “I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.” (Ex. 33:16-17) If God had meant to include the people in this blessing, He would have used the plural instead of the singular second person, saying ye and you in King James English instead of thou and thee. (To my knowledge, God never declares that the people of Israel have found grace or favor in His sight, only select individuals among them.)

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

#6 Father David Moser

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 05:21 PM

What Bible do you use/recommend? I have always used the King James Bible, but I know there are more complete Bibles..


What do you mean "more complete Bibles"? If you mean Bible translations that include the deuterocanonical books included in the septuagint, it is worthy to note that the original KJv translations included those books (and the KJV Apocrypha is still available if one but looks a little). It was only later that the deuterocanonical books were removed from most editions of the KJV by the publishers who were often protestants or who relied on the protestants to purchase their product.

Fr David Moser

#7 Ryan

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 05:55 PM

Michael Asser's translation of the Old Testament from the Septuagint, in the King James style, is partly available here: http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/zot.htm

#8 Ruth Sammons

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 06:00 PM

http://www.e-sword.net/index.html This is an amazing resource. It has the KJV with Apocrypha for free, plus Church Fathers, Bibles in other languages and a host of other stuff. Sure, some of the stuff you won't be wanting, but a lot you will. Software and many bibles are free, some you will have to pay for, I think I downloaded RSV with Apocrypha for about $10. Has a number of (free) Greek NT's as well as the greek septuagint ot. Do check it out. Excellent for cutting and pasting, great search engine for that verse you can't quite place.

Ruth

#9 Gloria

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 07:03 PM

Thanks to all for your input. I'm pretty sure that I am looking for the deuterocanonical books that Father Moser wrote about. I should be able to find the King James Version Apocrypha. I have seen it, but didn't realize at the time it was what I was looking for.

#10 Father David Moser

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 09:45 PM

You should be able to find the KJV with the "Apocrypha" separated out in its own section. If you happen to find a KJV with the deuterocanonical books incorporated in their proper place, then you will have a real find! Also no one really mentioned the newly translated "Orthodox Study Bible" which is a fresh translation into English of the Septuagint. Its major drawback (IMO) is that it uses "modern language" rather than the more traditional KJV style English - but that's really only a problem for liturgical use.

Fr David Moser

#11 Christophoros

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 02:16 AM

You could also try the Third Millenium Bible, which is a lightly updated version of the KJV with the Apocrypha included. Many Orthodox booksellers sell it.

http://www.tmbible.com/

There are actually more revisions than the website indicates (mostly in sentence structure).

In Christ,
Chris

#12 Gloria

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 02:30 AM

Thank you for your help, knowledge, and input. All is appreciated.

#13 Adrian

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 03:34 AM

If anyone wants more information or about an explanation of New Testament they can read the books of Theophylact: http://www.amazon.co...62748739&sr=8-1
Also people can read the Homilies of Saint John Crysostom that explain both Old and New Testament:
http://www.amazon.co...sostom homilies

#14 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 09:57 AM

Happy New Year Gloria.

I have always used the Revised Standard Version of the bible, since about the age of 12.

A couple of years ago a good friend gave me the Orthodox Study Bible and I now use that. A beautiful book!

What I would prefer to is to be able to use the bible my husband uses. But it is in Greek and although I can read it I just cannot feel the words.

Regards
Effie

"The Greek and Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible possessed today were unknown to the 54 scholars of the King James Version. The manuscripts of the Bible which were found later pointed out more clearly the serious defects of the King James Version. This fact convinced the Church of England in 1870 to make a revision of the King James translation. This revision was published in 1881 (N.T.) and 1885 (O.T.) and was known as the English Revised Version of the Bible, which included the Apocrypha, printed in 1895. However, to its detriment, this committee of revisers included only Anglican scholars. This version was not accepted by the vast majority of local churches and people, who cherished the King James Version."

"
The Eastern Orthodox Church officially uses the Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament which was translated from the original Hebrew language into Greek in the third century B.C. The Septuagint of the Orthodox Church contains all the Canonical Books and the Anaginoskoinena Books "worthy to be read" (called Apocrypha in the English Versions). For the New Testament, the original Greek text is used by the Greek Church, while the other Orthodox Churches have translated the Bible into their own native languages from the original Greek, with the Slavonic translation the oldest. The Orthodox Church has not, as yet, translated the Bible into English and so has no official English translation. In the meantime, the Orthodox are temporarily using both the King James Version and the Revised Standard Version."

The above excerpts are from

http://www.goarch.or...th/ourfaith7068

#15 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 02:06 PM

What Bible do you use/recommend? I have always used the King James Bible, but I know there are more complete Bibles.

Thanks to everyone in advance.


I think that it is always best to begin with the version used in your parish/jurisdiction/church. These are most often versions blessed by our hierarchy to read and also keep us on the same track as others within our parish & jurisdiction as to what we read.

After this version begins to sink in however ( I mean after quite few years have gone by using one particular version) it can be very helpful to begin reading, let's say the Psalter, in other versions. In other words for those who are used to for example the Brookline version and this has really sunk in it can help to begin turning to other LXX versions such as the OSB and and NETS. This falls more into personal than church/liturgical reading but it does broaden one's understanding of the text and how one hears it.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#16 Owen Jones

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 02:38 PM

A couple of questions for all you Biblical scholars. What English translation is used in the liturgy? The Gospel book contains both Greek and English and both are read in my Church. Also, when the reader reads the OT reading, what translation is that? Does anyone know? Also, since we do not have the original documents that the Gospel authors and St. Paul wrote, do we know anything about the dating of the manuscripts that were eventually standardized in the canon of the NT? Also, my understanding is that the original KJV OT translation is from something called the "masoretic text" and not the Septuagent. Does the Orthodox Church, or do any Orthodox Biblical scholars comment on this? BTW, it is possible to buy a facsimile copy of the 1611 KJV text which much is more complex to contemporary ears than the common KJV version used today. It also has all of the original spelling and capitalizations and lettering which is different than modern English. It also contains all of the intertestimentary books, including "Bell and the Dragon." Takes a while to absorb. So I assume there is more than one KJV???

#17 Adrian

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 07:42 PM

Bible reading program:
http://www.bombaxo.com/2009_plan.html

#18 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 09:13 PM

A couple of questions for all you Biblical scholars. What English translation is used in the liturgy? The Gospel book contains both Greek and English and both are read in my Church. Also, when the reader reads the OT reading, what translation is that? Does anyone know? Also, since we do not have the original documents that the Gospel authors and St. Paul wrote, do we know anything about the dating of the manuscripts that were eventually standardized in the canon of the NT? Also, my understanding is that the original KJV OT translation is from something called the "masoretic text" and not the Septuagent. Does the Orthodox Church, or do any Orthodox Biblical scholars comment on this? BTW, it is possible to buy a facsimile copy of the 1611 KJV text which much is more complex to contemporary ears than the common KJV version used today. It also has all of the original spelling and capitalizations and lettering which is different than modern English. It also contains all of the intertestimentary books, including "Bell and the Dragon." Takes a while to absorb. So I assume there is more than one KJV???


Dear Owen,

Quite a few of these questions I am unable to answer due to lack of knowledge or of direct experience.

I will say though that translations of services and who does them varies a lot from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In ROCOR almost all of our translations have been done by either Isaac Lambertson or Fr Lawrence Campbell (one or two of the older translations were done by Fr Lazarus Moore). But once you get to other jurisdictions different people are involved as well as different hierarchs who bless the translations .

So far I think that only the Epistle book has been translated and by St Tikhon's Press. No Orthodox translation of the Gospel into English exists that I know of. Instead we are all using different standard translations- some KJV, some NJKV as well as others I would say.

As to the original of the Gospel that we read or use- I am with the Russian church but I do not know what the source of the Slavonic text is that we use liturgically. Standard 'home bibles' though that are blessed by the Moscow Patriarchate tend to have a history influenced by the editions of the Bible society. This was because in Russia there had never been any history of a colloquial Bible- everything had been in Slavonic. And of course communism put a stop to any such attempts at a colloquial Bible. Only now is there a renewed opportunity for such things; but from I can see there is more of a focus right now at presenting what the Slavonic texts for the services mean in Russian (parallel Slavonic/ Russian texts).

Of course though nowadays for Scripture we make use of critical texts. With careful use I don't see why the Russian church would not make use of such a method to arrive at its own Bible. This in turn could be a first base text in Orthodoxy for translation into English.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#19 Father David Moser

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 09:43 PM

I will say though that translations of services and who does them varies a lot from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In ROCOR almost all of our translations have been done by either Isaac Lambertson or Fr Lawrence Campbell (one or two of the older translations were done by Fr Lazarus Moore). But once you get to other jurisdictions different people are involved as well as different hierarchs who bless the translations l


This is changing as the Synod of Bishops recently established a translation commission headed by Bishop Jerome of Manhatten (formerly Fr John Shaw). Fr Lawrence, although he appears quite healthy, is getting on in years and to the best of my knowledge doesn't do much translation any more and Br Isaac, though not completely blind, is functionally blind and can no longer see to do any translation work. We, in the English speaking Churches of all jurisdictions, owe these two men a great debt as they were pioneers in providing English translations of service material and so I ask that you remember them in your prayers.

Fr David Moser

Edited by Father David Moser, 06 January 2010 - 09:44 PM.
typo


#20 Peter M

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 01:52 PM

If anyone wants more information or about an explanation of New Testament they can read the books of Theophylact: http://www.amazon.co...62748739&sr=8-1
Also people can read the Homilies of Saint John Crysostom that explain both Old and New Testament:
http://www.amazon.co...sostom homilies


I find the Explanation of the Gospels by the Blessed Theophlyact and the homilies of St. John Chrysostom to be indispensable for my bible study. In fact, I was advised to use the Blessed Theophylact's four-volume Explanation of the Gospels as my main "translation" of the gospels. These books show a slightly revised version of the KJV Scripture, along with his commentaries on them, and in many cases the revisions are necessary corrections of the existing KJV manuscript, which was essentially a Protestant undertaking.




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