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Publications from schismatic or heretical sources


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#1 John Bennett

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:05 PM

I keep seeing publications from a schismatic (maybe even heritical) monastery & convent recommended in these forums and when I tried to note it in the thread my post was not posted. I'm assuming it was not aproved by an administrator and I'm very disturbed by this. Is this normal?

#2 David R.

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:50 PM

I "believe" new forum members are on review for a while. So I don't think it is just your posts.

#3 Jason H.

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:24 PM

John,

If you create a post, especially if you're new, it takes awhile for the Mod's to approve things. Also, if you create a new thread and it doesn't past the guidelines they send you a PM.

-Ignatios

#4 John Bennett

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:43 PM

I was able to open this thread with very little wait. I'm rather disturbed that source material is not checked out before recommending it to members, the monastery I'm worried about is run by a schismatic (maybe heretical) Bishop inside my Bishops area and I'm concerned about spreading his message. It seems to me to be irrelivent that he publishes some useful books if all the money is used to fund schism....

#5 Jason H.

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 11:56 PM

Are you referring to HOCNA?

#6 John Bennett

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 12:02 AM

Dormition Skete & Holy apostles convent. Bishop Gregory.

#7 Jason H.

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 01:48 AM

What is your exact concern? There are heretical and schismatics in all Orthodox diocese, those who are not Orthodox. But from them just don't buy anything they sell.

#8 John Bennett

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 02:37 AM

My concern was promoting schismatics and quoting them as Orthodox. My original post was to discourage buying from them. I started this thread because I didn't realize how long the delay was on my original post.

Sorry, I really didn't want my first posts to be negative. Since my original post finally apeared, could a moderator close this thread?

#9 Kosta

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 05:33 AM

Many of those publications are even available from Holy Cross bookstore believe it or not. One of Gregory's icons is found in the OSB.

#10 Ryan

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:55 AM

There are actually Antiochian parishes that have commissioned Gregory to paint their churches. That's a little scary.

Regardless of the status of their church, a lot of the stuff Dormition Skete translates and publishes is solidly Orthodox material.

#11 Jason Hunt

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 12:25 PM

I could not speak more strongly against joining Abp Gregory's group in Colorado or any other schismatic group, yet I certainly will buy their Great Synaxaristes simply because they are the most complete lives of the saints available. HTM/HOCNA's menaion is also the only complete menaion in English from the Greek. St. John of Kronstadt's Press has been the publisher of the English Octoechos & Menaion from the Slavonic for ROCOR and the publisher is also now in schism, though the person who actually translated these works is still in ROCOR. A lot of HTM/HOCNA's translation work was also done while they were in ROCOR, but now they are in schism and they have the goods. As for me, I go for the quality, and if the schismatics have the best service books, icons, and lives of saints, then shame on "World Orthodoxy"! If the OCA, the Antiochians, or the GOA published comparable books, then I would buy the books from them instead.

What I don't understand is how the Antiochians hire Abp Gregory to paint their churches and even promote his work by posting an interview with him on a parish's website. What were the editors of the Orthodox Study Bible thinking when they put his icons and name throughout the OSB?! This is what puzzles me, honestly, and not that people would buy their publications of service books and lives of saints.

http://www.stlukeort...ory-photos.html

http://drop.io/stluk...uke-church-divx

The Great Synaxaristes and Menaion material from these sources is, as far as I can tell, free of schismatic propaganda and anything heretical (unless you consider HTM's expulsion of St. Augustine from its service books and lists of saints heretical). It is probably good to distinguish between purchasing solid Orthodox material from a questionable source and purchasing questionably Orthodox material from a questionable source. The questionable sources may publish some propaganda, and HTM is particularly good at putting out very good books with long intros and epilogues full of propaganda, but one can just as easily skip over this supplementary material. From the "canonical" sources, one can also find very questionable and even heretical material, and one should certainly avoid this as well.


In Christ,

Jason

#12 John Bennett

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 12:48 PM

At least one greek Church in denver had Bishop Gregory write their icons, he had all the saints look away from the altar, that alone is reason not to do busness with him. I agree that people need to make sure that even what they get from canonical sources is really orthodox, but it seems to me that one (me at least) should not give money to someone who has told me they wish to see our Church destroyed.

#13 John Bennett

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 12:53 PM

More than one Icon in the OSB came from his monastery. I must agree that Bishop Gregory is a very good iconagrapher, but i don't think that is enough.

#14 Jason H.

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 01:42 PM

Do we have any Patristic sources that addresses this issue? Is it right, Orthodox, to buy from schismatics?

#15 Jason Hunt

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 04:45 PM

At least one greek Church in denver had Bishop Gregory write their icons, he had all the saints look away from the altar


Do you happen to know what church that was, and whether they had the icons redone? Just curious.

#16 Jason Hunt

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 04:58 PM

Do we have any Patristic sources that addresses this issue? Is it right, Orthodox, to buy from schismatics?


Canon 33 of the Council of Laodicea says that we are not to join in prayer with heretics or schismatics (which many bishops ignore anyway), but to my knowledge there are no canons against purchasing items from schismatics.

#17 John Bennett

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 05:33 PM

Do you happen to know what church that was, and whether they had the icons redone? Just curious.


St. Catherines, as of a year and a half ago they were still there. That was the last time I was there.

#18 John Bennett

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 05:34 PM

I don't believe there is a prohibition against buying from schismatics, it just seems a poor choice in this case.

Edited by John Bennett, 14 October 2010 - 05:37 PM.
bad spelling


#19 Jason H.

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 05:37 PM

I've never come across seeing anything being sold from HTM/HOCNA, and I buy a lot of things.

#20 Kyrill Bolton

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 05:59 PM

Do you happen to know what church that was, and whether they had the icons redone? Just curious.


The icons in St. Catherine's were prepared and installed while Fr. Gregory was in communion with ROCOR. His works are in several other Orthodox churches in the Denver area. I am not aware of any of his works being installed in the area since he left ROCOR.

As is mentioned in post 19 Holy Trinity Monastery is the only source for several Orthodox items. I would suspect that probably most, if not all Orthodox churches in the English speaking world, use their edition of the Psalms.

I think that the question is whether one is furthering the cause of schismatics by one's action. Prayer would, I believe, be the way to decide.




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