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Is St. Ismeria truly considered Jesus' great-grandmother?


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#1 Abigail

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:33 PM

Please click on the following link and read the article :
I'm confused. I've never really heard of this before till now. If it seems true to some extent, I would greatly appreciate it if anyone would explain how this true?
Best Wishes & Prayers Always +

http://theorthodoxch...her-identified/

#2 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:09 PM

The website in question is not an "official" Orthodox website sponsored by any specific jurisdiction as far as I can tell, but then neither is Monachos FWIW. So it would certainly be a stretch to consider this an official Orthodox position. And it is worth mentioning that none of the sources discussed in the article in question are Orthodox. Therefore I do not think that the Orthodox Church has a position on the topic.

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#3 Olga

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 11:47 PM

From the linked article:

After God called [Ismeria] to “Paradise,” a rector at the hospital informed the Virgin Mary and Jesus of her passing. They departed for the hospital with the 12 Apostles, Mary Magdalene, Mary Salome and Mary Cleophas. There they paid honor to St. Ismeria.


If Ismeria were indeed the mother of St Anna, who bore the Virgin, who then bore Christ, who appointed the 12 Apostles, the above statement makes no sense at all chronologically. Or, she must have been a very, very old woman at the time of her death. Of course, the article also trots out the usual shibboleths of sola scriptura protestantism:

“Mary herself is mentioned very little in the Bible,” added Lawless, a lecturer in history at the University of Limerick. “The huge Marian cult that has evolved over centuries has very few scriptural sources.”



#4 Destiny

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 01:12 PM

From the linked article:

"After God called [Ismeria] to “Paradise,” a rector at the hospital informed the Virgin Mary and Jesus of her passing."

According to Genesis 25:7, Abraham lived 175 years. The prophet Amos was said to live about 300 or 600 years I think? Biblically, people in the past lived for a very long time! Olga, as you said, St. Ismeria must have been a very, very old woman at the time of her own death. So, the fact that St. Ismeria still lived at the same time as Mary, The Mother of God, seems possible.

Read more: http://wiki.answers....e#ixzz18BY0mf00

Edited by Fr Raphael Vereshack, 15 December 2010 - 01:40 PM.
removed extra spaces between paragraphs


#5 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 03:30 PM

I am fairly sure that life expectancies in Jesus' day are fairly well documented as being something considerably less than 175 years, closer to less than 80 years old for women. Since we DO know from Orthodox tradition that St. Anna was rather advanced in years when she bore the Theotokos, and Christ did not start His ministry until He was 30, that would make St. Anna's mother very old indeed, well beyond the life expectancy of the time. Not impossible, but I would prefer an authoritative Orthodox source for corroboration. Absent that, I would say the answer to the original question, so far, would be No, from an Orthodox view, this Ismeria referenced in this article is not truely considered to be the great-grandmother of Christ our Lord.

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#6 Kusanagi

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 06:28 PM

At the moment the only Orthodox source on this are peoples' opinions on their blogs as to whether it is really His great grandmother or not. Even on the life of St Anna doesn't mention the name of her mother when I came across it on an Australian Greek Orthodox source.
I believe it was St Nikolai Velimirovich mentioned that after the flood peoples' life expectancy didn't go into the few hundreds but to what we are used to nowadays such as 80s, 90s and 100s.

#7 Abigail

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 01:03 AM

When I checked to see if the website was Orthodox on the about page, I recognized and felt very familiar with lots of things. The website is actually under the Indian Orthodox Church. As you mentioned " None of the sources discussed in the article in question are Orthodox" and as Olga stated " Of course, the article also trots out the usual shibboleths of sola scriptura protestantis", so it really made me wonder and it surprised me a lot on why this type of article would be posted on my branch of Orthodox Christianity. You are right the Orthodox Church does not have a position on this topic. I further analyzed the article. I came to a conclusion that the article would be more based on the author's perspective.

#8 Abigail

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 01:22 AM

When I looked at the author of this article, it said "Jennifer Viegas". I guessed that maybe the article was written by some type of a news reporter, who just collected research. My guess was right. The article was originally created at another database, which is http://news.discover...randmother.html. When I found this new link, it helped me verify a lot. For example, if you click the link and read the last sentence, it says "“But the fact that St. Ismeria came to the fore in late medieval Florence,” Muessig concluded, “reveals some of the more positive attitudes that medieval culture had towards the place and the importance of women in society.” After reading that I realized, that the answer to the question I posted is no. St. Ismeria is not the the grandmother of St. Mary or Jesus' great-grandmother. The genealogy or the heritage of Jesus, St. Mary, and St. Anna should be coming from Israel according to Hebrew Tradition. The fact that this article relates St. Ismeria having obligations with Florence doesn't seem to make sense to me? When I searched the name of the meaning "Ismeria", the origin is French. So, it just doesn't seem to fit in. Also, this article is based on Medieval research. My guess is that this article seems to be coming from a more Western perspective, which makes me have a lot of doubts and questions.

#9 Kusanagi

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 10:23 AM

I just found this:

http://1.bp.blogspot...generations.jpg

Also in the Old City in one of the Greek monasteries there is a wonder working icon of the grandmother of Theotokos. I however didn't see the icon.

#10 Olga

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 12:13 AM

http://1.bp.blogspot....enerations.jpg


This image is not a proper icon suitable for veneration, it is a variant of the Maternity image that was discussed here: http://www.monachos....ull=1#post70822

#11 Vasiliki D.

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 11:30 PM

For those who are wondering, the name of the mother of St Anne is not Ismeria but Maria and there exists an icon that proves this at the Monastery of Sidnai. This very same monastery belongs to the Orthodox church because it was the property of St Anne's family ...

I had uploaded this rare icon of the grandmother of Panagia a few years ago to Orthodoxwiki. This is it:

http://www.orthodoxw...age:MariaGM.jpg

#12 Kusanagi

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 08:31 AM

I read online that the commemoration day for the parents of St Anna is the 25th July according to the Greek Calendar. But I have not been able to see it anywhere mentioned online.

#13 Olga

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 01:42 PM

July 25 is the feast of the Dormition of St Anna. The Greek Synaxarion mentions the names of her parents (her mother's name is Maria), but does not actually refer to them as saints or that their memory is commemorated on that day.

#14 Vyara

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:39 AM

Hello everyone :)!  ... I would like to read the discussions about the "Maternity icon", but the link is broken. Can you do something (I need a brief explanation as to why it is inappropriate for veneration)?

Regards,

V






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