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Apostolic succession: were all the patriarchates founded by apostles?


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#1 James Scott

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 04:02 AM

I've been looking more deeply into Church history, and I've been studying, namely, the five ancient Patriarchates. I have a question. Were all the five ancient Patriarchates{Rome, Constantinople, Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Antioch} established by an Apostle of Christ? If so, what is the historical evidence for this? I've been having some difficulty finding the answers.
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#2 Antonios

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 06:32 AM

I believe Holy Tradition reveals that all the five ancient Patriarchates were founded by the apostles, though not exclusively to His chosen twelve.

This is the 9th century text The Limits of the Five Patriarchates

The first See and the first patriarchate is of Jerusalem, James, the brother of God and apostle and eyewitness, and minister of the word and secrets of secrets and hidden mysteries, contains the whole Palestine a country until Arabia.

The second See is of the Apostle Peter from Rome to the limits of mountains and French, Spain and France, and Illyricum, until Gadiron and the Pillars of Hercules and Ocean at the west end of the sun as are dead waters and properties as wooded the island as the edge of oceans populated areas. Christians ever crowd until Ravenna, Lombardy, and Thessalonika, Slavic, and Scythians, and Avars until Danube river, the ecclesiastical border, and Sardinia, Megara, Carthage, and part of Balearic Islands, and part of Sicily and Calabria, where the winds blow nasty, from the north, from the south, from the west-south, and from the east-south.

The third See is of Constantinople, founded by Andreas and the John Theologos and Evangelist, containing almost certainly the power of the Roman kingdom, Europe and up the West Asian and Cycladic islands until Pontus, Cherson, and Abassid Chaldea, and Khazars, Cappadocia, Armenia, and until to the endless north areas.

The fourth See of Alexandria, of Mark apostle and evangelist, son of Peter the apostle, who took control over India and Ethiopia, throne of Apostle Thomas, until Africa and Tripoli and over all country of Egypt until the limits of Palestine, the south container.
The fifth See of Antioch of Peter, containing the area until to the East, the way of seven months, until to the Georgia and Armenia and Azerbaijan, and until to the internal desert of Persians, Medes, Chaldeans, until the Arab leadership, and Parthia and Mesopotamia Elamiton, and from the wind of sun rising, where the sun rises.

#3 Kosta

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 08:25 AM

In the 5th century as Constantinople grew into a prestigious capital and was given equal priveleges as Rome. Elder Rome accused New Rome of not having apostolic foundation so it should not be afforded priveleges. The truth is the neccesity of a city to have been found by an apostle in order to recieve patriarchal status was a papal novelty to attempt to hinder Constantinople from becoming more influential than Rome.

Rome, Alexandria & Antioch were indeed found by apostles precisely because they were the biggest cities within the empire. The apostles targeted the cities for missionary work, not tiny rural villages. So Rome, Antioch and Alexandria were elevated to a superior status by Nicea because that was their order of importance in the empire. Naturally the biggest most prestigious cities also morphed into christian centers early on, as did Constantinople by the early 5th century. If being found by an apostle was a factor then Antioch would have held the second place and possibly Corinth the third!
What Constantinople did have going for it , is its in the region of Asia Minor where John the apostle held jurisdiction in nearby Ephesus. By a simple study of the gospel of John written in 95 a.d. we see certain apostles who held a special place in this region. The gospel put an added emphasis on Andrew and Phillip because it was written for the community these apostles labored in. The tradition of Asia Minor backs up the gospel and the gospel backs up the traditions of the asia minor community. Andrew plays an important role in the johanine gospel bbecause he held a special place in that community.. In fact Andrew is even named before Peter which is a first for a gospel account(John 1.44), showing the importance Andrew held in the area. The second is Philip (Jn 12.21-22, 14.9) who was martyred in hierapolis but tradition says he preached thru-out Asia Minor and of course John the evangelist himself.

So as Rome was founded by Peter the first of the apostles, Conbstantinople was found by Andrew the first-called apostle and brother of Peter.




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