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Is the God of Islam the same God as is worshipped by Christians?


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#61 Rob Bergen

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 06:32 PM

No. There are certain people who are held in esteem, like we esteem Abraham Lincoln or George Washington, but they are not prayed to asked for prayers. Although there may be some small sects that do such things, Islam is not really monolithic, there several different traditions.


Popular Islam, however, venerates holy men and saints, and will often petition with prayers known as "do'a," which are personal supplications and not part of the five required daily prayers called "salat." There are many practices in venerating "saints" tombs that mirror they way Christians venerate. This practices, though, is usually frowned upon in Sunni Islam tradition, and more widely recognized among the Sufis and some Shi'a. This is why Al Quaida bombed Muhammed's mosque and burial site years ago; they did not believe that people should venerate anyone, that all must be reserved for Allah.

#62 Xenia Moos

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 11:41 PM

I used to think along the following lines: There is only one Creator and since Christians and Muslims pray to the Creator, we are praying to the same God even though the Muslims have false beliefs about Him.

I don't believe this way anymore, after more reflection. If it was a demon who inspired Mohammed, disguised as the holy Gabriel, then this demon was not telling Mohammed about the Creator, he was telling him about someone else entirely- another god, disguised as the Creator.

I do think this topic is important because I often encounter New Age-oriented people who want to tell me to relax my Orthodoxy because all religions worship the same god. For my sake and for the sake of any words I might give in response to this type of thinking, it helps that I am clear on this.

#63 Andrew Crook

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 05:14 AM

I've always been unsure about this stuff. In many ways, even though I was Muslim off and on for awhile.. it still confuses me. In some respects Islam seems quite simpler without all of the complex Christology, etc. that the Orthodox Church teaches. However, I also realize.. that there are fundamental misunderstandings that Muhammad had. He could not understand how Jesus can be the "Son of God" without God having a consort for instance.

I'm going to try to listen to Fr. Daniel's Podcast on Ancient Faith Radio.. "Christ the Eternal Kalimat." I'm hoping it will really help me clear up any confusion about the two. It's very obvious to me though that, everything which Islam possesses liturgically (prayer, fasting, rememberance of God) Orthodoxy already has.

A lot of the beliefs the Qur'an ascribes to Christians.. are not really entirely accurate of what the Orthodox Church really teaches, from my understanding of it anyways.

#64 Maria Osborne

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:28 PM

On a slightly different, but related note, how are we to understand the very existence and enormity of Islam as Orthodox Christians. By this I am particularly concerned with the aspect of what God expects of us and how we are to understand His Hand behind all things.

Maria

#65 Kosta

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 06:33 AM

According to St. Sophronios of Jerusalem, Islam is sent to chastise christians of their sins. Truly, Islam spreads where christians become lukewarm and promote heresy as the norm, whether it was monophysitism and monotheletism during the time of St Sophronios or our modern day immorality and repaganization in the heart of europe as the catalyst.

In sub-saharan Africa islam is losing badly where this religion contracts by millions annually.

#66 Bryan J. Maloney

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:33 PM

I used to think along the following lines: There is only one Creator and since Christians and Muslims pray to the Creator, we are praying to the same God even though the Muslims have false beliefs about Him.

I don't believe this way anymore, after more reflection. If it was a demon who inspired Mohammed, disguised as the holy Gabriel, then this demon was not telling Mohammed about the Creator, he was telling him about someone else entirely- another god, disguised as the Creator.


Could we not just as easily say that it was a demon who inspired Martin Luther and the theology espoused by Evangelicals is not the theology of God and our Savior but of someone else entirely, another god, disguised as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Consider, the Evangelical "god" is so weak that he is unable to abide the sight of sin. Our God is so strong that sin cannot tolerate His gaze.
The Evangelical "god" is so foolish that he can be deceived by someone being "covered in the blood of Christ". Our God discerns all and will not be tricked by such a paganistic tactic.
One could go on.

#67 Todd G

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:45 PM

I don't really buy the idea that Nestorian teaching has anything to do with Islam. This often gets put forward by people suggesting that the non orthodox christologies of the syriac churches somehow led to Islam. Having pretty extensive experience with the East Syrian church in the time when Islam arose, I can certainly say that it was not theology but trade, the develoment of Arabic into a written language at the urging of miaphysite and diaphysite missionaries, and a a rebellion against Byzantine orthodox that led to Islam. See Patrica Crone's book on Meccan trade and the rise of Islam on this one.

#68 Margaret

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:19 AM

The statement from Muslims that they worship the same God as Christians or Jews seems misleading to me. I am beginning to suspect this is said as an evangelic lead in with which to gather curiosity and to open a dialogue, and thus convert one to Islam. However, I'd love to hear their response if one was to respond with "Really? You worship the God and Father or Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the King of Heaven, to Whom the Father has given all judgment because He is the Son of God and Son of man?" They might have to admit that we don't really worship the same God. And yes, like most people, I too (for the most part) admire their moral behavior (for the most part...not the killing, dismembering and lying parts) - and am envious of it especially after accidentally watching some shows on MTV! Ah well....it was an interesting thread, even if it was a bit old.

#69 Kosta

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:48 AM

I don't really buy the idea that Nestorian teaching has anything to do with Islam. This often gets put forward by people suggesting that the non orthodox christologies of the syriac churches somehow led to Islam. Having pretty extensive experience with the East Syrian church in the time when Islam arose, I can certainly say that it was not theology but trade, the develoment of Arabic into a written language at the urging of miaphysite and diaphysite missionaries, and a a rebellion against Byzantine orthodox that led to Islam. See Patrica Crone's book on Meccan trade and the rise of Islam on this one.


I would agree with this. How the Koran can mistake the Trinity as Father, Son and Mary, is definately not something learned from the nestorians.
Islamists who have some familiarity with our worship services would deny that we worship the same God. For Islamists our God is not the God of Abraham.

#70 Peter Cvek

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 10:54 AM

Saint John Damascene in the Fountain of Knowledge claims that the Mahometans worship the black stone at Kaaba with the name of Khabar, their god, inscribed on it, but now quite worn. Herodotus claims that the Arabs worshipped " Alilat" ( the derivative is Allah) otherwise known as the greek Aphrodite, or Venus, as the morning star, and John of Damascus claims that Khabira is the name of Aphrodite or the " greatest" ( Khabiru). Smith's Dictionary of Antiquities tells us plainly that to the Roman Aphrodite, or Venus, was known as " Lucifera" ( son of the morning/dawn) from which we receive the name of Satan as Lucifer.. The Scandinavians worshipped Lucifer as a hermaphrodotic principle called Freya or Frigga, and the Meso-Americans as Quetzalcoatl.... John Damascen also claimed that the final Antichrist would be of Mahometan lineage doctrinally...

#71 Zosimas Sidway

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 10:52 PM

The statement from Muslims that they worship the same God as Christians or Jews seems misleading to me. I am beginning to suspect this is said as an evangelic lead in with which to gather curiosity and to open a dialogue, and thus convert one to Islam.


Margaret, you are quite correct in your suspicion. Islamic dawah (evangelization or prolelytism) seeks to gain assent from Christians (and to a lesser extent, Jews) that we do, in fact, worship the same God. This was the whole purpose behind the public letter from Muslim theologians to Christian leaders, A Common Word Between Us and You, which sought to base interfaith dialogue on the affirmation that there is but One God, and that Christians and Muslims worship this One God. The highly regarded Australian Anglican pastor and author Rev Dr Mark Durie deconstructs this 'Common Word', as well as certain Christian responses to it (including a very significant one from the the Yale Divinity School), and offers a thorough warning and theological advisory to Christians regarding it. Dr Durie is quite solid in his Christology and theological underpinnings, and one of the foremost Christian writers on Islam today. His books, Revelation? Do We Worship the Same God?, and The Third Choice, are essential titles for Christians grappling with the subject of Islam.

My own struggle with this topic led me to do a great deal of study on Islam vis a vis Orthodoxy, and I have self-published my results in a small work called Facing Islam: What the Ancient Church has to say about the Religion of Muhammad, which covers some of the sub-topics treated in this thread. My conclusion was that Muhammad was indeed a prophet of antichrist, and that the Allah of Islam is emphatically not to be identified with the True Triune God revealed to us.

One thought in closing, as to why Islam has been allowed by God to thrive and expand so greatly: consider our Lord's Parable of the Wheat and the Tares.

#72 Margaret

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:02 AM

Thanks Zosimas. The Mark Durie links were very informative. I have his book "The Third Choice", but have yet to actually read it. Islam in general can be somewhat of a distraction for me, especially since I'd rather focus on who God is than who he is not. However, I am forced to become informed due to the growing population of muslims in my workplace, and my city. Part of me fears it because it must be very convincing for so many to apostatise from Christianity to it so I would rather hear their arguments ahead of time. I'm just not that bright that I can defend on the fly. Part of me cries for them; that they do not know the love of Christ, and I would love to convert them, but in order to do so, I think I need to understand more about them. I guess I really should read Durie's books!

In response to your closing comment, I have also pondered this question. I imagined they are also useful to stir us lazy ones to jealousy in their frequent pious practices, and their modesty which the west has all but lost. (I think of Paul's writings in how Christians can stir Jews to jealousy for God).

Thanks again for your informative links, and your blog.

#73 nijjhar

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:54 PM

Hi Brethren,

Real Islam is different from this Islam of Mullahs.

Islam stands for submission to the Will of Allah. The origin of Allah is from the tribal gods called Ilah. There were many Ilahs around Kaba, the Temple of Adam that has nothing to do with Allah, our spiritual Father. So, Allah is from Al-Ilah, the Father who is above the tribal fathers that they used to worship though Ilahs. Un short, Allah conveys better sense God as Father. Our Mother is Holy Spirit and Sons represent Father as inheritance is to the sons. That is why in Christ Jesus, we are the sons of Most High Allah.

Now, the Messianic Jews killed the Light of Jesus as they loved Darkness to fleece the people. Messianic Jews started to kill the Monks and Apostles by throwing them before the animals and that angered Gentiles as most of the Apostles were Gentiles who filled the Banquette Hall at the Wedding of the Son, Christ Jesus. That is why Mohammed rose against the atrocities and took revenge of the Jews.

Now, Mohammed established a system that the honest Rabbis in the Gentile villages were running. Mullahs are their Priests or Mullahs and they do their own wills and apply Shariah Laws. But our Father is Spirit and in spirit, you need to worship Him. This Christ Jesus demonstrated when James and John went to a Samaritan village and they refused to receive Christ Jesus and they asked Jesus to put that village on fire as Elijah did. But Christ Jesus reminded them that He has come to do the Will of our Father and not His own and this is called Islam. In short, Islam is submission to the Will of Allah and not those wills of Mullahs called Fatwas. Real Islam is of INSHALLAH and Not of INSHMULLAHS. As God is Spirit, He sets us Free and not binds us in the moral alws as Yahweh did. So, Allah is SHARIAH FREE and this Shariah is of the Mullahs. God does not make laws otherwise He will be bound by those Laws as John, the Baptist, an Angel was bound. Thus, Angel John, the Baptist was a Free Man but not having the freewill whereas the Apostles were both Freemen and had Freewill as well. That is no more slave to sins or laws but to the righteousness of heart.

So, this Islam of Mohammed is of Moon and star that is of Mullahs (Moon) and angels (stars) whereas the Real Islam is of Sun, the Primary Source of Light and that was Preached by Christ Jesus and His Second coming Christ Nanak Dev Ji..

Rajinder


Does the Holy Orthodox Church take a stand regarding Islamic worship. In other words, I have heard the claim that they worship the same God, but there are misunderstanding of God's nature precipitated by mutiple errors and heresies. Others say that it is an entirely different god. A false god revealed to a nation by a false prophet. Does the Church speak to this?






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