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New psalter with commentary


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#1 Christophoros

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 05:47 PM

Has anyone seen "The Orthodox Psalter: The Psalterion According to the Seventy, With the Nine Odes and Patristic Commentary", published by Holy Apostles Convent?

http://www.holyapost...&products_id=39

#2 Nina

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 05:53 PM

Thank you for this. I was waiting for it. I have their New Testament though and it is very helpful quoting all the Fathers' commentaries.

#3 Ryan

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 06:33 PM

That looks very promising, but I'm torn, because next month Jordanville will be publishing David James' "Slavic Orthodox Psalter" which will also have lots of supplementary material.

#4 Father David Moser

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 06:50 PM

Has anyone seen "The Orthodox Psalter: The Psalterion According to the Seventy, With the Nine Odes and Patristic Commentary", published by Holy Apostles Convent?


next month Jordanville will be publishing David James' "Slavic Orthodox Psalter" which will also have lots of supplementary material.


I have seen and used David James' translation and it is quite useable for reading in prayers or even in Church. It flows pretty well (although since it is a different translation sometimes you get a little tongue tied between what your brain remembers and what your eye sees on the page). The additional material is nice and seems to be focused on enhancing the useability of the Psalter as well as increasing one's understanding of the place of the Psalms in the prayer life. (I also think that future English language editions of the services might look to using David's edition as a base for the quotations from the psalms. But that's another topic)

I have not seen M. Miriam's translation yet, however, if the Gospel and Epistle that she did is any indication, her style tends to be very literal to the Greek and not really easy to use for reading - it is however valuable for study.

Given the different strengths of the translators - I would suggest that if you want a Psalter to use for reading in your prayer rule or for other devotional uses (the psalter as a prayer book), David James would be best, however if you want something for in-depth academic study of the text, but don't do Greek well (the psalter as a textbook) then perhaps M. Miriam would have the edge.

Fr David

#5 Anthony Stokes

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 08:33 PM

I have seen and used David James' translation and it is quite useable for reading in prayers or even in Church.
Fr David


I have David James' edition that was available online, and we have a copy of it in the church that we use for the grave watch on Holy Friday, since it has the prayers in it as well. It works well for something like that.

Sbdn. Anthony

#6 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 09:14 PM

If I could add- I still like the Brookline version very much (although I have to admit that our parish's version has deleted all mention of the 'bowels'). For in depth study of what the underlying LXX Psalter actually says the NETS version is very good for the whole OT, but not suitable for liturgical use. Interestingly though when as Fr David you use the Psalter frequently and begin to have its phrases & cadences memorized, the Brookline version & NETS match to a remarkable degree. That surprised me.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#7 Nina

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 10:14 PM

Fr. Demetrios Karellas sent an the email to his list notifying about this Psalter and also added that this Psalter (from original post in this thread) is the only one in English which has the right translation about the Psalm "The Lord shepherds me", instead of what we hear always in English [even in movies] "The Lord is my Shepherd".

Edited by Nina, 10 March 2011 - 10:50 PM.


#8 Donna Rail

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 10:26 PM

Has anyone seen "The Orthodox Psalter: The Psalterion According to the Seventy, With the Nine Odes and Patristic Commentary", published by Holy Apostles Convent?

http://www.holyapost...&products_id=39


That looks beautiful. I may get a copy. Thanks. :)

#9 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 12:51 PM

Fr. Demetrios Karellas sent an the email to his list notifying about this Psalter and also added that this Psalter (from original post in this thread) is the only one in English which has the right translation about the Psalm "The Lord shepherds me", instead of what we hear always in English [even in movies] "The Lord is my Shepherd".


The Slavonic has it as a verb: "The Lord shepherds me", but many English translations have it as 'The Lord is my shepherd'. For example the Brookline LXX & the OSB both have it that way. The NETS version though has it as as verb.

I've never heard why the choice was made this way for the Brookline version. Maybe it's due to how many English speaking people have heard the famous KJV, "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want..." (I can almost say it off by heart still from my childhood).

At the end of the day though most translations seek to present their version in comprehensible English while still trying to remain faithful to the original pattern. This at times means variations from the original wording or even paying debt to previous more well know versions.

That's why I think that it's very helpful if you have versions in the original Greek or Slavonic that you can consult; or something like NETS which works on the principle of keeping to the original word meanings and phrases as much as possible (and being quite obscure at times for that very reason).

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#10 Ryan

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 01:31 PM

If anyone gets a copy of the Holy Apostles Psalter, I would love to see some short samples from the translation.

#11 Nina

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 04:29 PM

If anyone gets a copy of the Holy Apostles Psalter, I would love to see some short samples from the translation.


I have the NT from them and they are very meticulous about translating. They explain in the footnotes also why they choose a word different from the popular translations. I like their NT very much. Also I like their series about Saints; and the Theotokos book is amazing (rich with info from Tradition). Btw I am NC and they are not in communion with us... I think.

#12 Ryan

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 10:02 PM

I have the NT from them and they are very meticulous about translating. They explain in the footnotes also why they choose a word different from the popular translations. I like their NT very much. Also I like their series about Saints; and the Theotokos book is amazing (rich with info from Tradition).


When you're translating liturgical poetry, though, it is just as important for something to read well, to be rhythmic, as it is to be faithful to the original language. I'm sure Mother Mariam is very good at getting to the literal meaning of things, but does she know anything about prosody?

Btw I am NC and they are not in communion with us... I think.


They're not in communion with anyone, and we are all graceless heretics... but they do have some very fine publications.

#13 Father David Moser

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 11:09 PM

I have the NT from them and they are very meticulous about translating.


There is no "they" at Holy Apostles Convent. It is a one woman convent and M. Miriam is not only the only nun, but also the only translator. Although she does good work - her lack of collaborators is perhaps her greatest disadvantage. And yes, that particular jurisdiction is in communion with no one; or perhaps it might be said that they are in schism from everyone.

Fr David Moser

#14 Nina

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 11:18 PM

When you're translating liturgical poetry, though, it is just as important for something to read well, to be rhythmic, as it is to be faithful to the original language. I'm sure Mother Mariam is very good at getting to the literal meaning of things, but does she know anything about prosody?


I haven't seen this publication myself (not that my opinion will be worthy in any way) however I trust very much the opinion of Fr. Demetrios and he praised it. Also a translator has to feel and know both languages (original and target) as a mother feels and knows her child as long as her heart beats (has rhythm). I do not know Mother Mariam and her abilities in this aspect but I beleive she does have that feel and we hope also in this case she is guided by the Holy Spirit.

They're not in communion with anyone, and we are all graceless heretics...


:) Maybe we are. However God is merciful. :) Honestly they also have impressed me on the phone with their love, although they tried to convert me. :)

but they do have some very fine publications.


This was my scope and I would not have known about them if it was not for their publications. And because of their publications I have seen my sinfulness very clear in several occasions and this is very intimate, however I am grateful to them for it. I have felt the heart poured into their work because it has affected me spiritually for the better and towards repentance. Truly. It is another matter why I am still a sinner though.

#15 Nina

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 11:22 PM

Posted Image Originally Posted by Father David Moser Posted Image

There is no "they" at Holy Apostles Convent. It is a one woman convent and M. Miriam is not only the only nun, but also the only translator. Although she does good work - her lack of collaborators is perhaps her greatest disadvantage.
Fr David Moser



Oops just posted my previous post, Father, and I just saw your post and had no idea about this fact. I do not know this convent as I said before but as I mentioned in my previous post the books I have purchased from that convent have influenced me for the better always. :( Why do we have to be separated?

#16 Nathaniel Woon

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:20 AM

How does this compare with Joanna Manley's work, Grace for Grace?

#17 Nathaniel Woon

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:22 AM

I mean to ask about the quality of the commentary actually. I suppose it is similar with the Orthodox New Testament that Mother Miriam published.




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