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Orthodox belief regarding the Two Witnesses?


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#1 Jake A.

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 06:17 AM

Is there an agreed upon identity of these, and will they be Orthodox?

#2 Olga

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 06:46 AM

You've lost me. To whom do these "two witnesses" refer?

#3 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 10:54 AM

This is from Revelations 11. Most Patristic writers are of the opinion that this is a reference to Elijah and Enoch, who, as prophets of God, worshiped with Right Glory, and we claim them as our own, so I would say they are "Orthodox".

Of course, there are a myriad of websites out there with lots of specious conjecture about various individuals being the "two witnesses" among us now, part of the "THE END IS NEAR" crowd.

I have also read where the two witnesses are the Old and New Testaments.

Herman the "can I get a witness?" Pooh

#4 Jake A.

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 07:54 PM

I believe the Fathers wrote they were actual persons but Id like to see some quotes ecause I don't have access to them

#5 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 07:58 PM

I am pretty sure that Elijah and Enoch were actual persons according to the teachings of the Church and the writings of the Fathers.

#6 Father David Moser

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 08:15 PM

As Herman said, the two witnesses spoken of in the Apocalyse are Enoch and Elijah who were taken from earth to heaven without having died (yet). In the last days they will return to the earth and will proclaim the Gospel. Only then will they die - being martyred by the antichrist. Archbishop Averky's book, The Apocalypse of St John translated by Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose) and published by the Valaam Society of America (if I'm not mistaken that is now St Herman of Alaska Brotherhood in Platina), is an excellent resource concerning the patristic commentary on this part of scripture.

Fr David Moser

#7 Nina

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 09:11 PM

Oh there are quotes about them. God willing we will post as we come across them.

I have heard (and this might be only rumor and since we know nothing because only God knows this please do not put much value on this since it has no meaning for our salvation or for what will happen when anti-Christ comes) that the Prophet Elijah is on earth and invisible. :) I am soooo happy if he is - now this may sound very infantile thought to the advanced/knowledgeable Orthodox, but this thought warms my heart since I love Prophet Elias. When I am in new places and deserted I always wonder if that's where St. Elias dwells. :) But on the other hand maybe he is in Israel. I get so excited by the idea and it is insane lol since we have walking Saints like St. Spyridon (who is in Corfu) and we know where they are, but still is so wonderful to think about a holy person such as Prophet Elias who is still alive because of a high mission when he will stand up to the anti-Christ.

#8 Evan

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 08:09 AM

I've also heard Moses put forward as the second witness, together with Elijah-- both having "returned" at the Transfiguration and both being known to consume God's enemies with fire. (Numbers 16:35, 2 Kings 1:9-12). While Scripture describes Moses' death and burial, it is also said of him that "no one knows his grave to this day." (Deuteronomy 34:6). Although St. Hippolytus of Rome, St. Gregory the Dialogist, St. John of Damascus and St. Ephraim, among others all expect(ed) Enoch.

St. Gregory the Dialogist: "When Enoch and Elias preach, many of the Jews who then remain faithless will return to recognition of the truth; as it is said of that same Elias, 'Elias, indeed, cometh first and shall restore all things.' These two are named the two olive trees by Zacharias (Zach 4:3) and the two candlesticks by John (Rev 11:4)."

In Christ,
Evan

#9 Paul Cowan

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 10:18 PM

Don't forget St. Seraphim of Sarov said he will also return at the end times.

Also their is a (t)radition that when the Iveron icon of the Mother of God leaves Athos it will also be Time.

Paul

#10 Nina

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 12:28 AM

Don't forget St. Seraphim of Sarov said he will also return at the end times.

Also their is a (t)radition that when the Iveron icon of the Mother of God leaves Athos it will also be Time.

Paul


Yes, St. Seraphim will return and then sleep again but in Russia, not in Israel. :) He will come to reinforce the faith of people before the abomination of desolation. Many ppl will travel there from far and wide and America to meet him and receive his blessing. :) Ok this is what I read lol.

I have heard that Mount Athos will submerge before antiChrist takes power so the holies there are preserved and not defiled or desecrated. The trees will bend in one direction as to show the monks there in which direction to go. The trees will bend the same way as they bent when Panagia first set foot on Athos.

#11 Anna K.

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 11:41 AM

I wonder, if our dear St. Seraphim already has returned, when his relics were found in 1991 and taken to Diveyevo in a rejoicing procession. Now he sleeps there and many people have and will travel there to receive his blessing - I hope I will some day.

http://www.roadtoemm...hims_Relics.pdf

In Christ,
Anna K.




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