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Metropolitan Jeremiah of Gortynos on the revilers of Orthodox history in Greece


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#1 Vasiliki D.

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 03:58 AM

The following article was posted in Mystagogy March 22, 2011. It is an interesting read since he warns that their is a marriage between the faith and the homeland. So, the history of the homeland should be important to Orthodox since anyone who discredits historical truth also discredits Orthodoxy. I wonder what other peoples thougths are.


On the Revilers of Orthodox Faith and Greek History


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March 10, 2011

By Metropolitan Jeremiah of Gortynos

My sermon today, Christian brethren, I write with much pain, but also with great indignation about things heard lately in our country.

And of course our Church should not remain indifferent to what is heard, because they harm the souls of our Greek Christians, particularly damaging our youth.

For this reason I ask that you please listen carefully to my sermon today, and I do not only seek your compassion in this, but also that you struggle together with us against this twisting of our holy and glorious history.

1. Lately, my beloved, there are some who want to show themselves off as educated and polymath's, but in fact they are ignorant and untrue.

They tell us that the history of our nation, for which we are proud and for which we are admired by all nations, is not - as they say - as we know it.

But how is it? They, as if they are employed by the Turks, tell us that when our nation was subjugated by the Ottomans, it was all nice and pleasant. We enjoyed privileges, we lived in peace and security, and we have achieved growth.

That is like telling us that it was good we were enslaved to the Turks and became organized! These gentlemen say these things to tell us that there was no reason to revolt against the Turks and the so-called Revolution of 1821 had a different meaning and different purpose.

But if, gentlemen, if it is true that under Turkish slavery there was freedom and all were roses, then how does this explain the harsh torture and the horrific suffering of so many many neomartyrs of our faith? The Turks didn't even allow us to become literate.

We, however, who learned from our ancient ancestors to love the sciences, even though enslaved, we found a way to educate the Greek children. Our Church created the "Secret Schools!" But,

2. As for the "Secret Schools" (Κρυφά Σχολειά), these pseudoscientists tell us this is a myth. And as an argument they tell us that there is no testimony for them. I tell you, however, my Christians, that the "Schools" in which Greek students were taught during slavery were not permitted by the Turks, and were not obvious with their permission, which is why they are called "Secret Schools". The monks did this at night in the monasteries. For this reason, during the period of slavery there is no testimony for "Secret Schools".

But when sweet freedom began to emerge, the same students of the "Secret Schools", men that is, spoke clearly in their correspondence and other writings about these schools. The many locations in our country, attested as "Secret Schools", would not be called so if they were all lies and myths.

3. The revilers of our history are bothered that the Revolution of 1821 is tied to the great feast of our Panagia, the Feast of the Annunciation. And they are bothered again that the Church initiated the struggle.

Among other things, more than these two, my Christians, you need to understand that this offensive movement by these gentlemen essentially is a movement against Orthodoxy and against the Church. This is why it requires a battle, a fierce battle.

(A) In fact, brethren, 1821 is closely tied with our faith, the Orthodox faith. Kolokotronis told his students in Pnyka: "When we took up our weapons, we said first this is for faith and after for homeland"!

For this reason they decided to begin the Revolution on March 25, in order to believe that the miracle was done by the Panagia and the free nation would have as its patron our Lady the Theotokos.

Hence the Revolution of 1821 was a holy revolution of an Orthodox Christian nation against a nation of another religion, a revolution of faith and freedom that was not simply a class revolution for one's interests, as revilers want to show us.

(B) Regarding the other, which contrarians deny and are proved historically groundless, that the fight for freedom in our nation was initiated by the Church.

Yes, my Christian!, the threads of the struggle of the Revolution was kept secret by the Dimitsanitis saint Patriarch Gregory V, whom these wretched forgers of history swear at. Shame on them! The other Dimitsanitis, the Bishop of Patras, Germanos of Old Patras, hoisted the banner of the Revolution, and urged men to stream forth in the struggle.

Indeed, Bishop Germanos spared the fighters from the difficult fast of Great Lent, since it was the month of March when the struggle began. Along with the fighters there were fighting clergy, bishops, priests, deacons and monks.

The great French historian Poukevil said that 6,000 clergymen had fallen in the struggle for the liberation of our nation.

4. My Christians! As we should thank God because we are Orthodox, so we should also thank God because we are Greeks with the most glorious history. Our history is sacred because it is fermented with the faith of the Orthodox Church.

Some younger people want to cut the marriage between faith and homeland, who set out to make our country atheistic. We warn them that as we fought against the Turks and won, so we will fight against them and reduce them, because in our struggle we have as an advocate the Champion General the PANAGIA, the patron saint of the Greek nation, the Mother of our Jesus Christ.

The revilers of our Faith and Nation will be ridiculed. They deserve it!

Source: Translated by John Sanidopoulos

#2 Olga

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 07:06 AM

Historical revisionism, promoted by various interest groups, has been with us for many centuries. Present-day examples include the neo-Nazis of western Europe (most of whom are the grandchildren of the folks who lived through the Third Reich, and who have no historical sense), those who regard the 1967-1974 junta as being good for Greece (conveniently ignoring the political imprisonments and horrors inflicted on those who dared to resist), and the neo-Communists of post-Soviet Russia, the sort who have lobbied for the glorification as saints of Josef Stalin and Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya, the latter being a Soviet "freedom fighter" who was executed by the Nazis.

I speak as one whose extended family has been affected by the policies of political ideologies from Left and Right, in Russia, Greece, Ukraine and Romania. My own parents, and my husband's maternal family were among them. I also know folks personally, now well into their seventies, who were part of the Paidomazoma, which Effie Ganatsios mentioned in another thread. I also am acquainted with folks who lived through Nazi Germany and other dictatorships, who, to a man (and woman), recoil at the thought that such a regime could ever be revived.

It is a grave insult to those still alive, and to those no longer with us, to suggest that things like persecution on political grounds, or events like Paidomazoma simply did not happen. There are simply too many people alive today who can testify otherwise, and even more who have been told the stories and seen the evidence.

Some younger people want to cut the marriage between faith and homeland,


I would be at the forefront in the denunciation of ethnophyletism, which, after all, has been denounced as a heresy by the Church: Orthodoxy is not bound by ethnicity or race. The faith is, and must be, open to all. There is neither Jew nor Greek, for we are all one in Christ Jesus. If a "marriage of faith and homeland" is essential to be Orthodox, then where does this leave the great number of folks who join the Orthodox Church whose ethnicity has no ties with Orthodoxy? Surely this is a slap in the face for these people. I, for one, find such a notion disgusting.

Edited by Olga, 23 March 2011 - 07:13 AM.
adding additional material


#3 Kusanagi

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 10:00 AM

There are examples of this mentioned in the lives of Romanian martyrs during communism times.
Some communist soldiers persecuting the faithful hesistated for exactly this reason that to attack the Church or the faith was to attack the people and heritage their ancestors themselves so they were not able to make as strong a persecution as the Russians wanted them to do.

There is an article on patriotism by Metropolitan Philaret here:

http://www.fatherale..._of_god.htm#n23

#4 Nina

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 12:12 PM

But how is it? They, as if they are employed by the Turks, tell us that when our nation was subjugated by the Ottomans, it was all nice and pleasant. We enjoyed privileges, we lived in peace and security, and we have achieved growth.


Pardon?! Oh well, that's just peachy!

If a "marriage of faith and homeland" is essential to be Orthodox,



Relax. I do not see him saying that what you elaborated about in this paragraph. He is not speaking about other nations. He is addressing issues within his own country. Do not take it personal and there is no reason to apply on you, or others laws that do not pertain. He is speaking strictly for his nation, where God willed it that Faith and homeland were synonymous (if someone has issue with this Will of God then that is another story). And it is true that when people shed their blood there they said "Gia tin Orthodoxia kai Patrida!" (For the Orthodoxy and Homeland!") Note they did not say for the Greek Orthodoxy. However for the Orthodoxy and Homeland. Because freedom from the enemy meant freedom to be Orthodox as it was one of the liberties which was taken away.

There is no doubt Greeks have been Orthodox since the first centuries of Christianity and that became their identity. Even here in US when people ask about my religion and I say simply Orthodox Christian, they add: "Oh, Greek Orthodox." (and I start saying how it is really American Orthodox since we live in America now - and they nod in understanding). This is history, simply a fact that has happened and it is not philetism. It is not a sin that Greeks embraced as a nation Orthodoxy and are identified by that. In contrary.

#5 Evan

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 12:26 PM

Perhaps I am misreading him, but I don't understand His Beatitude to be making a statement in favor of ethnophyletism. He seems rather to be making the very basic point that Greece is no longer under the Ottoman yoke because godly Orthodox cast it off, and they did so precisely because they were Orthodox and not something else. He perceives criticism on the overthrow of the Turk to be an attack on the animating force behind it-- that is, the Faith "once and for all delivered to the saints."

In such context, his assertion that there ought be a "marriage between faith and homeland" seems to be call for all Greeks to recognize that what freedoms they currently enjoy spring from their religious heritage. If that gets them around to rediscovering that heritage (to the extent that they have lost track of it or are in danger of doing so), I think that's a tremendously good thing.

I acknowledge the risk associated with confusing the things of Caeser with the things of God. Political freedom is obviously not the same thing as the freedom that Christ bought with His precious blood. We have been liberated from a tyranny far more oppressive than any Turk. And yet, under the Ottomans, Caeser claimed the things of God. The Fathers consistently affirm that this is to overstep the bounds of legitimate political authority and one is not bound in conscience to submit to the state under such conditions (I could provide quotes if anyone is interested/skeptical).

In Christ,
Evan

#6 Vasiliki D.

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 01:48 AM

Perhaps I am misreading him, but I don't understand His Beatitude to be making a statement in favor of ethnophyletism.


Evan, you are right. His Beatitude is NOT talking about ethnophyletism it is usually everyone and anyone but Greek people who keep bring up that accusation.

The article is more along the lines of what Nina posted prior to you and what you also commented about.

My purpose for posting it was to highlight how important keeping history "pure" is ... we live in an age where information over the internet is not "pure" ... Wikipedia does not have true history but anyone has the right to go into an article and write whatever they feel is history. So, that can have potentially devastating implications on global awareness and understanding of "truth" as it happened not as we politically shape it.

My other purpose for posting is to hopefully awaken and reignite in the "Greek" people their roots: Orthodoxy. So much is going on back in our homeland and they have forgotten "God". In the school system, they now teach Buddha, Islam, etc and then tell the children they can make up their own minds - this from Orthodox Theologians and sometimes even priests!! This is one of the nations chosen by God to be Orthodox and they turn their back on Him? After ALL He has done for them?

That is not ethnophyletism ... that is love for Orthodox and the people. Hoping that the lost sheep return back to the Shepherd. I enjoyed His Beatitudes sermon and I hope many of us allow ourselves the right to keep our true identity and what shaped us but to do that we need to remember and keep pure our history.

It also serves as a warning for the Orthodox people in any country ... if we forget the history of Orthodoxy in our own homeland and do not "fight" to remember it we are also at risk of forgetting God.

#7 Kosta

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 02:56 PM

Many of the greeks are under strong demonic delusion. They believe in every stupid conspiracy theory imagineable from endtime doomsday scenarios centered around america to cocacola still secretly putting cocaine into their soft drinks . Communism is twice as strong in the colleges of Greece than it is in the mainstream, where these youth are further brainwashed into leftwing propaganda abnd organize for violent protest over nothing. They idolize figures like Lenin, Che Guevar, and Fidel Castro wearing t-shirts with their images. If it wasnt for the Church there would be no Greece today.

I wish Met Jeremiahs woulf have also mentioned that March 25, 1821 was a KyrioPascha as well.

#8 Donna Rail

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 07:08 PM

Many of the greeks are under strong demonic delusion. They believe in every stupid conspiracy theory imagineable from endtime doomsday scenarios centered around america to cocacola still secretly putting cocaine into their soft drinks .


Beg pardon, but is this sort of thing really necessary? :(

#9 Donna Rail

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 07:09 PM

Perhaps I am misreading him, but I don't understand His Beatitude to be making a statement in favor of ethnophyletism. He seems rather to be making the very basic point that Greece is no longer under the Ottoman yoke because godly Orthodox cast it off, and they did so precisely because they were Orthodox and not something else.


I think this is true.

#10 Vasiliki D.

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 08:22 PM

Many of the greeks are under strong demonic delusion. They believe in every stupid conspiracy theory imagineable from endtime doomsday scenarios centered around america to cocacola still secretly putting cocaine into their soft drinks . Communism is twice as strong in the colleges of Greece than it is in the mainstream, where these youth are further brainwashed into leftwing propaganda abnd organize for violent protest over nothing. They idolize figures like Lenin, Che Guevar, and Fidel Castro wearing t-shirts with their images. If it wasnt for the Church there would be no Greece today.

I wish Met Jeremiahs woulf have also mentioned that March 25, 1821 was a KyrioPascha as well.


I dont agree with you ... Greeks are not under strong delusion. They are smart and sociable people with good hearts and not as stupid as you make them out to be. Do you have evidence to support your claims?

What Greeks ARE guilty of is abandoning God and that can be demonstrated by their actions. Firstly, Greece has the highest rates of Abortions in the world. Secondly, most Greeks (infact) all Greeks live infidelity as if it is normal ... most will get married only because they have fallen pregnant and some, not all, end up in extra marital affairs. That is the sad state of affairs in Greece and most of the Westernised world follows suit in these matters it is just that they are not "Orthodox" countries ...

These two sins are staining the beautiful white dress that Greece earned over hundreds and hundreds of years of martyrdom and christianity (a warning for all other "Orthodox" countries in the making).

The NEW sin that is being introduced into Greece by the politics is the removal of "religion" from the School System, the removal of the Cross from the flag among some of the vile changes the politicians wish to introduce.

Satan hates Greece because each and every day "that" Country has liturgies and services and prayers rising up to God. He DOES NOT want to SEE Orthodoxy and is fighting Greece harder than any where in the world through all of these matters collectively.

Elder Damaskinos was telling us that one of the modern Saints we talk about (not Paisius or Porfyrios but a charismatic monk from Athos known for being really really thin (?? anyone know the name of this one) told him personally (back in the early eighties) that Greece is STILL strong because the weight scale still leans to the right because Greece has MANY Orthodox who are in secret and do not parade themselves publicaly praying for Greeces well being.

#11 Kosta

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 04:05 AM

Beg pardon, but is this sort of thing really necessary? :(


As an ethnic greek it is. If i can make just one of my brethren wake up it would have been worth it. Atleast i didnt tell you of the conspiracy of the greek taxidriver that used to tell the customers in his cab that the construction workers for the greek olympics are planting bombs all over athens in order to start WW3 which is why the new world order handed the olympics to a small coutry to begin with. oops i guess i did just tell you.

#12 Donna Rail

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 06:23 PM

Oh, for goodness... :( Sorry.

#13 Kosta

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 10:49 PM

I dont agree with you ... Greeks are not under strong delusion. They are smart and sociable people with good hearts and not as stupid as you make them out to be. Do you have evidence to support your claims?

What Greeks ARE guilty of is abandoning God and that can be demonstrated by their actions. Firstly, Greece has the highest rates of Abortions in the world. Secondly, most Greeks (infact) all Greeks live infidelity as if it is normal ... most will get married only because they have fallen pregnant and some, not all, end up in extra marital affairs. That is the sad state of affairs in Greece and most of the Westernised world follows suit in these matters it is just that they are not "Orthodox" countries ...

These two sins are staining the beautiful white dress that Greece earned over hundreds and hundreds of years of martyrdom and christianity (a warning for all other "Orthodox" countries in the making).

The NEW sin that is being introduced into Greece by the politics is the removal of "religion" from the School System, the removal of the Cross from the flag among some of the vile changes the politicians wish to introduce.

Satan hates Greece because each and every day "that" Country has liturgies and services and prayers rising up to God. He DOES NOT want to SEE Orthodoxy and is fighting Greece harder than any where in the world through all of these matters collectively.

Elder Damaskinos was telling us that one of the modern Saints we talk about (not Paisius or Porfyrios but a charismatic monk from Athos known for being really really thin (?? anyone know the name of this one) told him personally (back in the early eighties) that Greece is STILL strong because the weight scale still leans to the right because Greece has MANY Orthodox who are in secret and do not parade themselves publicaly praying for Greeces well being.


Doesnt your post agree with mine that there under strong demonic delusions then? I didnt even mention the rampant abortion rate, or how the wonderful atheist europeans have been able to easily influence the country to remove religion from the public square. Greeks are no longer greek nor Orthodox first, but 'europeans'. Doesnt this all suggest demonic delusions? How about the teens of Athens and the other major cities that party, drink and smoke every single night with their parents blessing and money (another major cultural problem). I think your giving greeks way too much credit, any people that see imaginery boogeymen as the source of all their problems arent very smart. Who are these boogeymen that are forcing greeks to get abbortions? Its the new world order, the rothchilds, the zionists, and coca-cola!

Actually Vassiliki i do have evidence for what i say. I have photos of the communist convention which i attended in 2006 in Greece, which took place in the largest university in Athens. The three day event drew hundreds of thousands of people mostly the youth. The lines for the booth that sold cuban flags and fidel castro memorabilia was quite long. There was literally a 30 foot tall painting of Lenin which greeted you at the entrance. A youth concert featuring Famous (communist) singers of the likes of Papakostantino and Mitropanos were present. And of course wherever you went from village to city the youth where Che Guevaro t-shirts as if this illiterate third worlder is some kind of hero.

#14 Vasiliki D.

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 02:31 AM

I think your giving greeks way too much credit, any people that see imaginery boogeymen as the source of all their problems arent very smart. Who are these boogeymen that are forcing greeks to get abbortions? Its the new world order, the rothchilds, the zionists, and coca-cola!


Hi Kosta, to answer your question ... I dont give Greeks or anyone in the rest of the world any credit nor do I want to come across as someone who is chastising them ...

You ask, who are the boogeymen? I will tell you what my answer would be ... it is not the Rothchilds or the zionists or coca-cola who are to be blamed for the sins of Greece, or ANY country of the world.

WE are guilty of sin. You and me and each individual ... everyone is accountable for their own choices ... Adam sinned and he blamed Eve. Eve sinned but she blamed the snake. Well, the snake whispered in their ears, sure ... but they made the choice to bite the temptation. Had they thought for a moment and made another choice then things would be different.

I am not into blame games but accountability.

When a woman has an abortion because she wants to keep her "shape" so she can continue to be sexy and have boyfriends ... then the Rothchild family (as evil as they might be) are not to blame for this. Nor is coca-cola ... it is the individual who chooses sin and brings IN the consequence of that sin. When we choose sin then we empower these horrid organisations more and more and more. If we did not empower them then they would NOT be where they are.

:-)

My opinions.

#15 Jason H.

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 03:04 PM

Actually Vassiliki i do have evidence for what i say. I have photos of the communist convention which i attended in 2006 in Greece, which took place in the largest university in Athens. The three day event drew hundreds of thousands of people mostly the youth. The lines for the booth that sold cuban flags and fidel castro memorabilia was quite long. There was literally a 30 foot tall painting of Lenin which greeted you at the entrance. A youth concert featuring Famous (communist) singers of the likes of Papakostantino and Mitropanos were present. And of course wherever you went from village to city the youth where Che Guevaro t-shirts as if this illiterate third worlder is some kind of hero.


Since you say you have "proof" of pictures perhaps you could share them?

#16 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 03:52 PM

A reminder that this Forum is for the discussion of Patristic themes that involve the Holy Fathers and our life in Christ.

If we could please refrain from other topics then especially as we approach the Sunday of the Precious & Life giving Cross.

Thank you.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

#17 Father David Moser

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 03:57 PM

Since you say you have "proof" of pictures perhaps you could share them?


Or better yet. Don't share there here and if anyone is interested perhaps you can email the pictures privately. I think this topic has strayed too far already from the focus of Monachos.

Fr David




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