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Differences of passions between genders


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#1 Christina M.

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 03:09 AM

Is it generally accepted that men (in general) have more intense passions than women?

Are there only certain passions in men that are generally more intense than in women, for example "lust" or "fornication"?

I realize that there are always exceptions, and obviously a passionate woman would have more passions than a dispassionate man. I'm just asking about what is generally accepted by the Fathers (and by science, if need be).

Thank you for your answers.

#2 Brian Patrick Mitchell

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 01:52 PM

The Fathers were pretty egalitarian when it came to the comparative sinfulness of the sexes, but they did observe some sins more often in men and other sins more often in women.

In his homily 30 on Matthew, St. John Chrysostom advises men on how to deal with a wife who is "fond of dress, gaping and eager after modes of painting the face, and dissolved in great luxury, and talkative and foolish." Then, to counter the objection that he is being too hard on women, he adds that "there are many things to be found in men also, which are not amongst women; as for instance manslaying, breaking open of tombs, fighting with wild beasts, and many such things.”

Nowadays it is dangerous to be so evenhanded.

#3 Christina M.

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 02:19 PM

From the Ladder of Divine Ascent:

The good Lord shows His great care for us in that the shamelessness of the feminine sex is checked by shyness as with a sort of bit. For if the woman were to run after the man, no flesh would be saved.



#4 Nina

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 02:22 PM

What is meant by "to flesh would be saved"?

#5 Christina M.

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 02:26 PM

What is meant by "to flesh would be saved"?


It means I made a typo! :) Thanks, I fixed it.

#6 Nina

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 02:57 PM

It means I made a typo! :) Thanks, I fixed it.


lol and i thought it was too deep and i couldn't understand it.

#7 Darlene Griffith

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 10:54 PM

The Fathers were pretty egalitarian when it came to the comparative sinfulness of the sexes, but they did observe some sins more often in men and other sins more often in women.

In his homily 30 on Matthew, St. John Chrysostom advises men on how to deal with a wife who is "fond of dress, gaping and eager after modes of painting the face, and dissolved in great luxury, and talkative and foolish." Then, to counter the objection that he is being too hard on women, he adds that "there are many things to be found in men also, which are not amongst women; as for instance manslaying, breaking open of tombs, fighting with wild beasts, and many such things.”

Nowadays it is dangerous to be so evenhanded.


Father, what do you mean by your last comment?

#8 Brian Patrick Mitchell

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 01:37 PM

Father, what do you mean by your last comment?


I mean that finding fault with men is much safer today than finding fault with women.

Edited by Brian Patrick Mitchell, 14 April 2011 - 02:18 PM.


#9 Darlene Griffith

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 05:02 PM

I mean that finding fault with men is much safer today than finding fault with women.


Yes, so true. Just take a look at the commercials and one can see the truth in what you have said. Men are made to look like stupid, clueless, weak, dense wimps. Women, otoh, are made to look strong, saavy, smart, dependable, kind - the good qualities. We can criticize men, but there is an implicit rule within our society that women cannot undergo the same scrutiny.

#10 Fr Raphael Vereshack

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 08:39 PM

This is only one of many straw dogs that we have set up in our society- a cliché character designed purposely to deride and knock down and that represents what as a society we are encouraged to most deeply mistrust & hate. In other words everything is permissible and allowed no matter what its persuasion: as long as this does not involve authority or imply the need for obedience. (we have a popular show here on our national TV network called Little Mosque on the Prairie that actually is quite interesting in how it shows a Moslem community in a small Prairie community in Canada. But recently they introduced a new character to the show to give it more appeal- 'the daft christian minister'; every other character is portrayed in human colours- but this one is portrayed as a complete twit).

In any case all of this serves a powerful social function for it shows what is most legitimate to deride and then encourages everyone to participate, even if it's with the knowing smile or nod of the head. It's like setting up a post outside your village which everyone is expected to strike as they pass by it. And this symbolizes social belonging & participation in what is the chief value of our society.

It's amazing how hand and hand with our sophistication we've become increasingly primitive.

In Christ-
Fr Raphael

#11 Christina M.

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:56 PM

Not that I was trying to prove a point... but I believe I have found solid evidence that men have stronger sexual passions (or lust) than women. The great majority of sex offenders are male. Common estimates are that sex offenders are males in about 90% of all cases. Isn't this strong evidence that men have stronger sexual passions and temptations than women do?

Also it is generally accepted by scientists that males are usually more aggressive than females (I think this has a lot to do with testosterone). I don't know which "passion" aggression would fit under... maybe a sub-type of anger?

#12 Brian Patrick Mitchell

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 11:09 PM

Not that I was trying to prove a point... but I believe I have found solid evidence that men have stronger sexual passions (or lust) than women. The great majority of sex offenders are male. Common estimates are that sex offenders are males in about 90% of all cases. Isn't this strong evidence that men have stronger sexual passions and temptations than women do?

Also it is generally accepted by scientists that males are usually more aggressive than females (I think this has a lot to do with testosterone). I don't know which "passion" aggression would fit under... maybe a sub-type of anger?


Christ is risen!

Men do have a generally stronger natural desire for sex, and that desire does cause them more suffering (passion) on account of sex, and often that suffering does lead to sin. Most people through the ages have pretty much taken this for granted and dealt with it in various ways, by, for example, requiring women to cover up more and not expecting men to live as chastely as women. The Fathers were less tolerant of double standards for men and women, but they didn't deny the obvious the way feminized moderns do when they allow women to dress and act any way they please, pretend that the sexes are "similarly situated" with regard to sex, and demand that it mean no more to men than it does to women.

#13 Paul Cowan

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 12:15 AM

Not that I was trying to prove a point... but I believe I have found solid evidence that men have stronger sexual passions (or lust) than women. The great majority of sex offenders are male. Common estimates are that sex offenders are males in about 90% of all cases. Isn't this strong evidence that men have stronger sexual passions and temptations than women do?

Also it is generally accepted by scientists that males are usually more aggressive than females (I think this has a lot to do with testosterone). I don't know which "passion" aggression would fit under... maybe a sub-type of anger?


I think this is warped evidence. Perhaps there are more male sex offenders than women, but outside of the crime of 'sex offender', and more into the realm of lust and sexual passions, I got news for you; It takes two to tango. So I would say the libido of men and women is about the same regardless if one is wearing a burkha or not.

I have never understood why Muslim men can go around in tshirts and shorts while the women can have eye slits. Do the men not think the women can have temptations with the men running around half dressed? Why would they think their women are not lusting other men? You certainly can't tell unless you can see their eyes moving.

Someone recently posted here a saying of an elder "if women became sexually agressive no flesh could be saved? (paraphrased)

Paul

#14 Christina M.

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 12:27 AM

I have never understood why Muslim men can go around in tshirts and shorts while the women can have eye slits.

Are you suggesting that they close up the eye slits?

#15 Paul Cowan

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 12:34 AM

No of course not. But fair is fair. Make the men wear them too.

#16 Steven Burton

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:21 AM

Not that I was trying to prove a point... but I believe I have found solid evidence that men have stronger sexual passions (or lust) than women. The great majority of sex offenders are male. Common estimates are that sex offenders are males in about 90% of all cases. Isn't this strong evidence that men have stronger sexual passions and temptations than women do?

Also it is generally accepted by scientists that males are usually more aggressive than females (I think this has a lot to do with testosterone). I don't know which "passion" aggression would fit under... maybe a sub-type of anger?


This is not really a good sampling case here. We are talking about reported cases. No one actually knows the actual percentage of male versus female since it does not include all the non reported cases. I know from psychological perspective men seem to be more likely not to report sex offended crimes against them.

#17 Christina M.

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:46 AM

This is not really a good sampling case here. We are talking about reported cases. No one actually knows the actual percentage of male versus female since it does not include all the non reported cases. I know from psychological perspective men seem to be more likely not to report sex offended crimes against them.

You are correct that no one can really know, but let's look at the sex crimes that were committed against males only: About 1/3 of all sex crimes are committed against males, and still the great majority of these cases (over 90%) have males as their offenders. For the males that do report the crime, their perpetrators are still mostly male.

#18 Paul Cowan

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:57 AM

ok, lets talk about the passion of food. Is it whos' fattest or skinniest that is the problem? Or is it the perfect body? Where does this passion lie/lay (I always get them mixed up)? Is it more a male or female problem? Do we consider those on the beaches of California or the derdges of the inner city? Gluttons or anorexics? young single girls or married women? teenage boys or beer belly dad?

What about the passion of envy? Jealousy? Pride? I can't say either gender has it better or worse on any of them including sex. But we always seem to harp on that one. Perhaps it is because women have just as much struggle with it as the men????! And we are more comfortable looking at that one than the others? (how scary)

Paul

#19 Christina M.

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 03:45 AM

What about the passion of envy? Jealousy? Pride? I can't say either gender has it better or worse on any of them including sex. But we always seem to harp on that one. Perhaps it is because women have just as much struggle with it as the men????! And we are more comfortable looking at that one than the others? (how scary)

It would seem that males and females share most passions equally, but lust really does seem to be something different. Can you show me evidence contrary to the statistics I've shown above in previous posts? I think those statistics are very significant.

Besides the fact that most sex offenders are male, I must mention a rather taboo and sensitive topic, but I'll only spend one sentence on it: 100% of men reach orgasm during intercourse, but only 25-30% of women reach orgasm. I think that says a lot about how God created the two genders with unequal passions for sex.

Furthermore, I have an interesting quote from a respected saintly elder about the differences between genders concerning the passion of pride; Elder Joseph the hesychast said that women usually make faster progress in the spiritual life because they naturally have more humility, and they are able to do obedience easier to their spiritual parents. I'm not sure where in the book he said that, so I don't have a direct quote, but maybe Mr. Niko can help us out here with finding the quote.

#20 Paul Cowan

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 03:55 AM

Statistics are only as good as the source they come from. Significant as they may be they are already skewed as some one else noted. Men do not tend to report abuse by women for fear of rejection and humiliation.

St. Mary of Egypt
The adultress and the stones
harlot who washed Christ's feet
to note a few and if I had time I am sure I could find more. I can imagine their stories, but can't put a name to them without taking a couple hours research.

But this isn't the issue. Your second set of percentages are not accurate either; trust me!

I agree men and women approach sex differently and find what arouses one different than what might the other. In the end, both end up in bed. Pedaphiles are an extreme case and we should not taint the results with extremes. What are the norms? Ever been to a college campus? Or night club? Men may be more overt, but women are more than receptive to the advances. You can't two-step alone.




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