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The mystical supper... a passover meal?


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#1 David Puline

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 09:50 AM

Hello. I just finished reading 2 books. One by an Orthodox the other by a RC scholar on the breaking of bread and the wine. They seem to contradict each other. The latter scholar seems to say that the supper that Jesus had, the cups of wine, etc., was within the context of the Jewish Passover...not mentioning when it was. While the former writer says that this supper was late Thursday evening on the Day of Preparation. What would be the correct interpretation on this?

From the books: The Heavenly Banquet, (mini article pp247ff) (Fr Emmanuel Hatzidakis); Brant Pitre, Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist.

Blessings,
david.

#2 Father David Moser

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 01:25 PM

In Orthodox teaching the last supper was not the passover seder. The Orthodox "timing" of Holy week makes the death of Christ coincide with the ritual slaughter of the passover lamb at the temple which makes it impossible that the last supper was the seder.

Fr David Moser

#3 David Puline

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 03:24 PM

Thank you...most of the books I have read by Protestant, Messianic Jewish writers seems to place it within the Passover context. This is why it may be so confusing too many.

#4 Archimandrite Irenei

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 06:59 PM

The meal was a traditional berekoth (blessing) meal - even down to its wording. Not the Passover meal.

#5 Kosta

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 10:11 PM

As Frs. David and Irenaeus have said the last supper was not a sedar. The Last supper was eaten right before the day of preparation. If you can get your hands on the Oct 2001 back issue of Bible Review magazine there is an excellent historical study on this titled. 'Was Jesus Last Supper a Sedar?"

#6 David Puline

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 11:03 AM

Kosta....The Bible Review discontinued in 2004 or 5. CouldnĀ“t find article on line. I think I may have enough information. Thank you.

david

#7 Antonios

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:13 PM

As Frs. David and Irenaeus have said the last supper was not a sedar. The Last supper was eaten right before the day of preparation. If you can get your hands on the Oct 2001 back issue of Bible Review magazine there is an excellent historical study on this titled. 'Was Jesus Last Supper a Sedar?"


Here's a link to the full article.

#8 Christina M.

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:19 AM

Here's a link to the full article.

Thanks for the link! I thought the article was very interesting.

Is it correct Orthodox thinking that the synoptic gospels are in disagreement with the Gospel of John concerning the timing of the Last Supper? I've never heard that before. Is there some other way to explain it?

If it is correct thinking that the gospels are in disagreement on this issue, then could this be used as a proof that the Bible isn't (and doesn't have to be) infallible?

#9 Kosta

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 08:26 AM

It has to do with interpretation more than anything. Its unlikely that the custom of releasing a prisoner by Pontius Pilate for the passover took place after the Passover already begun. Most likely the events with Barabbas took place during the preparation for passover and not after. While Mark's gospel places the last supper as a passover meal, he also makes this unusual statement:

'After two days it was the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by deception and put Him to death. But they said, Not during the feast, lest their be an uproar of the people'.. (Mark 14.1-2) This assumes the trial, death and burial of Christ was consumated very fast so it wont drag into the start of the feast.

What the intent of the the gospel authors was is difficult to pinpoint, as the article points out Luke seems to imply that Christ didnt live long enough to have a passover meal with the disciples.
Even though its popular among protestants to believe that the mystical supper was a passover meal, the fact remains that the Church has always used leavened bread for the eucharist and Christ has always been known as the Lamb of God. Paul makes it a point to say the Eucharist is Christ which is our passover who was sacrificed(1Cor 5.4,7-8).The sacrificing of the passover lambs took place a couple of hours before the start of passover which was the day before(before sundown) so they would be ready to be eaten after sundown which was the start of the new day .

#10 David Puline

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:44 AM

Antonios...thank you for the link. Blessings during this Pascha.

david.

#11 Valla Nina

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 07:54 PM

The latest post on pravmir.com is an excellent read for historical insight into the Passover meal, as well: http://www.pravmir.c...h-on-the-cross/

A Blessed Pascha to All

#12 Sacha

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:03 AM

What do you think of this article? It offers a compelling analysis and resolution of the apparent contradiction between John's gospel and the synoptics.

http://www.askelm.co...ine/d050401.htm

#13 Robert (Cyril) Brown

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 09:22 PM

I've read the Brant Pietre's book and he makes some good points, and I admit some really interesting ones, but he keeps losing my interest. The foreword is by Scott Hahn and the book reads like a Scott Hahn book so I wonder if Hahn contributed quite a bit to it. It is like reading an introduction that just keeps expanding without ever really going anywhere, for example Scott Hahn's The Lamb's Supper which makes a few vague connections between the book of Revelations and the Eucharist but mainly just keeps going back to a few details concerning Hahn's conversion to Roman Catholicism. I wonder if Hahn has to keep reminding himself of why he converted to Catholicism the way he writes, it almost as if he is still trying to convince himself that he did the right thing. I think what you have to understand is the Hahn and Pitre are not writing deep theological works but are writing for the masses and the EWTN crowd at that.

I have not read the Heavenly Banquet so I will look for it online.

#14 Anthony H.

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:53 PM

If anyone else is interested in reading more on this topic, the "Mini-Study" Was the Mystical Supper a Passover Meal?, addressed in The Heavenly Banquet: Understanding the Divine Liturgy, has just been posted here. Blessed Lent, 2013!






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