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Accidently bought a Melkite prayer book...


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#1 Brad D.

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 10:59 AM

I may have made an error in judgment. I ordered a book called "The Publicans Prayer Book" based on a review from this site: http://www.orthodoxp...rayerBooks.html . I was just wanting primarily to use the daily prayers, and to study the rest of it to better understand some Orthodox practices. This one appealed to me because of its use of modern English. I am now very concerned that the prayers in this book may not meet Orthodox standards. I should have researched more.

Can anyone please tell me anything about this book? If not, can you please recommend a daily prayer book to use? The reviewer said it was basically the Jordanville Prayer Book with modern English, but I can't find the Jordanville text online to compare...

Disappointed,
Brad

#2 Rdr Daniel (R.)

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 11:29 AM

I know nothing about the prayer book you speak of but you could compare it to this prayer book from the O.C.A. http://www.archive.o...ox_Prayer_Book_

#3 Brad D.

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 11:52 AM

Thanks Daniel, I will look through that book and compare it... I also finally found this link: http://www.myriobibl...erbook/main.htm which I think may be the Jordanville text. The text in this online prayer book is nearly identical to the morning prayers in this book, with the only differences being the text is more modern and there are a couple small areas where there are extra prostrations (well, they call them metanies) with accompanying prayers with the prostrations. I am much more relieved having found this site to compare. This book is certainly not what I thought I was buying, but that's what I get for not taking more time to investigate it. I will still need to buy an Orthodox book if I am to study the Divine Liturgy.

With Care,
Brad

#4 Rdr Daniel (R.)

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 02:13 PM

I will still need to buy an Orthodox book if I am to study the Divine Liturgy.

Are you looking for a book about the Divine Liturgy or the Divine Liturgy itself written in a book?

#5 Nathaniel Woon

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 05:04 PM

Brad, the differences will be subtle though most things will be similar. Why don't you try getting then St Tikhon's Press books if you want something easy to understand? If you wnat something in the Russian tradition, get that OR the Jordanville prayer book. If you want something in the Greek tradition, the HTM is quite good.

#6 Brad D.

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 11:14 PM

Are you looking for a book about the Divine Liturgy or the Divine Liturgy itself written in a book?


Hi Daniel, A book containing the Divine Liturgy itself, although the true primary reason I bought the book was for the morning and evening prayers rules. I hadn't really known what an Akathist Hymn was before getting this book yesterday, but I like the Hymn to Jesus in it. Very powerful words all throughout the book.

#7 Brad D.

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 11:19 PM

Brad, the differences will be subtle though most things will be similar. Why don't you try getting then St Tikhon's Press books if you want something easy to understand? If you wnat something in the Russian tradition, get that OR the Jordanville prayer book. If you want something in the Greek tradition, the HTM is quite good.


Nathaniel: I wasn't necessarily looking for something easy to understand. I was just interested in the modern English version because since I am not Orthodox by tradition, it will not seem/feel strange to me praying the prayers in modern English. For a person who has been praying out of a prayer book using classical English, making that switch would probably be uncomfortable, but since it is new to me I figured I'd go with the newer text. I probably will buy the Jordanville text, seems like that one may be the most commonly used. I will be visiting an Orthodox church for the first time in late June when I am traveling, and figure I might bring it with me to use at the service.

Thank you very much for your advice!
Brad

#8 Nina

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 03:03 AM

I will be visiting an Orthodox church for the first time in late June when I am traveling, and figure I might bring it with me to use at the service.
Brad


Hello Brad. That is a great idea!

Will you have to travel far (in miles) for that Orthodox church? Do you think there might be an Orthodox mission closer to you?

#9 Brad D.

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:46 AM

Hello Brad. That is a great idea!

Will you have to travel far (in miles) for that Orthodox church? Do you think there might be an Orthodox mission closer to you?


Hi Nina, I live in Ardmore, OK which about 1 1/2 hours away from the nearest Orthodox church. I have done some pretty throrough searching for something closer, but have not seen where I should search for a mission. Are those listed along with the parishes on the OCA or GOARCH websites?

#10 Nina

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 03:46 PM

Hi Nina, I live in Ardmore, OK which about 1 1/2 hours away from the nearest Orthodox church. I have done some pretty throrough searching for something closer, but have not seen where I should search for a mission. Are those listed along with the parishes on the OCA or GOARCH websites?


Wow. Kudos dear Brad!

I remember Paul Cowan had a website with listings from the Antiochian Church which included all the churches... I am not sure which one though. Maybe Paul can post it again.

Does someone have more information for Brad to help him find something closer to his home? Or is someone from the same area that can help with more information? Thank you.

#11 Martin R Davis

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 05:53 AM

I may have made an error in judgment. I ordered a book called "The Publicans Prayer Book"......

Can anyone please tell me anything about this book? If not, can you please recommend a daily prayer book to use? The reviewer said it was basically the Jordanville Prayer Book with modern English, but I can't find the Jordanville text online to compare...

Disappointed,
Brad


Brad - I own both the Jordanville Prayer Book, and the Publicans Prayer Book. You should not be disappointed. The Publicans Prayer Book is a beautiful addition. The section on the writings of the Fathers is wonderful for devotions - this section is not in the Jordanville edition. The daily prayers are fully Orthodox and do not fall short. The wording is a little different and they use modern terms. I use both prayer books - I find that reading a different version makes the meaning fresh.

The Jordanville does contain an abbreviated text of the Divine Liturgy - which is helpful for services. But the Publican is wonderful for personal prayer and devotions.

You made a good purchase.

#12 Brad D.

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:21 AM

Brad - I own both the Jordanville Prayer Book, and the Publicans Prayer Book. You should not be disappointed. The Publicans Prayer Book is a beautiful addition. The section on the writings of the Fathers is wonderful for devotions - this section is not in the Jordanville edition. The daily prayers are fully Orthodox and do not fall short. The wording is a little different and they use modern terms. I use both prayer books - I find that reading a different version makes the meaning fresh.

The Jordanville does contain an abbreviated text of the Divine Liturgy - which is helpful for services. But the Publican is wonderful for personal prayer and devotions.

You made a good purchase.


Hello Martin! Thank you very much for your help! I am very glad to hear from someone that has used both. I have been using the daily prayers after having a chance to compare them with the online Jordanville text. The full rigor of praying the entire sections will take some time to feel "natural" I suspect. I love the prayers though, they are wonderful. I have been praying portions of them every morning and night, but have not yet had a good opportunity to use the mid-day prayers. I will be reading the back section soon, I suspect you are right and it will be very good.

Tell me this: Are the prayers generally supposed to be read, or chanted?

Thanks,
Brad

#13 Brad D.

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:22 AM

The above question about reading or chanting the prayers is not necessarily for Martin only, anyone else's thoughts are most very welcome.

#14 Martin R Davis

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:57 AM

Brad, (I posted a reply but it disappeared - so, my apologies if this a repeat...)

Wonderful question. My answer will of course be my own opinion - but I hope you can use it!

I prefer to say the prayers quietly to myself when praying alone. I think that chanted prayers seem much more appropriate in church.

At this time of year it is customary to read the "Paschal Hours" in place of the "Trisagion" daily prayers. (The Paschal Hours are found in the back section of the Publican's Prayer Book) - sometimes I like to sing/chant the refrain: "Christ is Risen from the dead, trampling down death by death and upon those in the tombs bestowing life" - as it helps me focus on the more festive meaning of Pascha/Easter.

One of my favorite Orthodox theologians; Metropolitan Kallistos Ware says that it's good to remember that prayer is the means to union with Christ - not the end.

Some good advice that I've heard is that it is better to have a simple prayer rule - or to pray fewer prayers with earnest concentration, than to pray many prayers in a rushed and distracted frame of mind. Simple prayers that you can memorize can become "templates" that help you develop prayers in your own words.

There are so many excellent resources available on prayer - this website is one of them. Also, any of the books by St. Theophan the Recluse.

A wonderful book that I found inspiring for personal prayer is "Prayers by the Lake" by St. Nikolai Velimirovic - it's available to read on-line http://www.sv-luka.o...ylake/index.htm

May all your prayers be answered...

Edited by Herman Blaydoe, 02 May 2011 - 01:23 AM.
fixed url tags


#15 Brad D.

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 01:37 AM

Thank you again for all of your thoughts and advice! Yes, I have been trying to begin with a simple prayer rule...primarily the first few pages of the morning or evening sections. I have not yet prayed through the entire section of either yet, but am thinking that I may do so on Wednesdays and Fridays...we shall see. I wish I had known about The Paschal Hour office! According to the book (the Publicans Prayer Book) that office is intended to be used only in the week following Easter. So, in that case, am I correct that we are to resume the regular morning prayers again? I wish there were a daily guide to the various changes throughout the year. I suppose for most people here that "daily guide" is the Church, but being Protestant and not having an Orthodox church nearby to even visit, I don't have that luxury.

I have read a brief section of Prayers by the Lake, very beautiful. I am currently reading his "Missionary Letters" right now, very interesting.

Thanks again,
Brad




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