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Are few saved?


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#1 Gene Burke

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:04 PM

Greetings to all,

I am interested to learn if Orthodoxy believes that few souls are in fact saved? I believe that theRoman church (prior to V2 council), use to hold the belief that few souls are in fact saved. They site scriptural stories such as the flood, exodus and Sodom and Gomorrah as examples. In fact in a revelation that was given to one RC Saint, in a single hour when 30,000 people had passed away, only 3 or 5 were saved and the rest went to hell (I may be a bit off on those numbers but it is very close).

So I was wondering what the Orthodox position is on this subject.

Thank you in advance for any and all insight into this question.

In Christ,
Gene

Edited by Olga, 01 September 2012 - 11:00 PM.
corrected font size


#2 Paul Cowan

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:10 AM

God desires ALL men to be saved. Man is the one who seems to not want this. We fight the Good fight; we run the race. God judges, not us.

Paul

I am sure there will be alot of gasps and finger pointing if I be permitted to darken the doors of heaven.

#3 Richard A. Downing

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:42 AM

Some Fathers, notably perhaps St Gregory of Nyssa, believed that eventually all would be saved (searches here will be fruitful on this, it's a big topic). The Church doesn't universally agree with St Gregory on that point, since, amongst many other things, Christ says clearly that there will be "wailing and gnashing of teeth". Many do, however, see St Gregory's point, and hope.

Richard.

#4 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:48 AM

Read on a bit: 'And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.'

#5 Phoebe K.

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:12 PM

As far as I understand those who die in the true church with a true faith will be saved, we hope to be but are always relent on the grace of God. As for those outside the faith it is the Lord's decision to make not that of humans to decale who is saved. We focus on our own salvation not that of others.

Phoebe

#6 Rdr Daniel (R.)

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 04:58 PM

I think it may depend on the context, should we are look all the people who have ever lived and then look at how many are saved then I expect one would find only a few in comparison to those who refused to be saved - for the one might say the choice is with us not God who wills all men to be saved.

However, if look at all the people (the saints) who ever did anything we would say was worthy of being saved (not that one one is ever truly worthy of such a gift of God), and then looked at how many people were saved despite not doing anything we might say is worthy, I expect we would find a great number are saved in comparison to those whom we may think, remembering the Lord's words "For whosoever shall give you to drink a cup of water in my name, because you belong to Christ: Amen I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.".

To be honest though as we know not who shall be on the right of Christ at the Last Judgment and received by Him, I think theorizing about how many shall be saved is not really of any benefit to us. The main point as Phoebe says above is that each of us should focus on his own salvation not think on other peoples.

I expect the focus on the few by Rome in the past was most likely from a stance taken by some to short of scare people into repentance as it were.

In Christ.
Daniel,

#7 Jim McQuiggin

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 06:09 PM

The discussion so far seems to with the understanding that "saved" is in reference to one's eternal destiny. However, Monachos's own glossary defines salvation as:

Salvation

(săl-vā'shən) n.

1. Entrance into full and eternal communion with God through the sanctifying power of the Spirit, transforming human sin into obedience, uniting man to the Father through the incarnation of the Son. Synonymous with perfected deification and perfected prayer.
2. Deliverance from the power or penalty of sin; redemption.
1. The agent or means that brings about such deliverance.
3. Preservation or deliverance from destruction, difficulty, or evil.
1. A source, means, or cause of such preservation or deliverance.


Certainly with this definition in mind, I would say that few are saved to the fullest extent as described here.

#8 Gene Burke

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 11:45 PM

Thank you all for your insight !!!

#9 George Y

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 02:21 AM

When I was a teenager, I had many dreams of armageddon. One that sticks with me took place on judgement day.

I was with my family and the dead were all climbing from their graves (they were fully restored, but their clothes were dirty) and joining the throngs of people convening before a wide stage. On the right side sat Christ on a marble throne with several angels around him. The angels were pulling people onto the stage and flying them up into the sky. On the other side sat the enemy on a golden throne and surrounded by demons. They too were pulling people onto the stage, then ushering them to a hole that they would shove the wailing people into and flames would shoot out.

For some reason, I took this scenario in stride and had a pleasant conversation with my parents and my siblings. We were all toward the right side, so we patiently awaited our turn as we inched forward. As I spoke, someone reached down from the stage and I took his hand to be pulled up. Something was wrong. The hand was like stone, so I looked at it and saw it was deep red with scaly skin and thorns on the knuckles. I looked up at the figure and saw a demon with yellow cat's eyes and thorns covering his face. I looked to the right toward my family, but suddenly they were 200 yards away and being pulled up by angels. I turned back to the demon (who had not loosened his grip) and said, "I think there's some mistake. I'm supposed to be with them." I motioned toward my family with a nod. "There's no mistake", said the demon, and he yanked me onto the stage. I immediately awoke.

I always assumed it was a prophetic dream. I've often felt the yardstick we will be measured with will be too tall for everyone but a few.

#10 Paul Cowan

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 03:15 AM

Something I have been told by numerous clerics is NOT to believe in your dreams. They are not real but only reflect your body's attempt to work out it's own stresses. There is nothing prophetic about dreams.

Paul

#11 Richard A. Downing

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:57 AM

Something I have been told by numerous clerics is NOT to believe in your dreams. They are not real but only reflect your body's attempt to work out it's own stresses. There is nothing prophetic about dreams.

Paul


The Gospel writers clearly believed that St Joseph was warned by God in dreams, and there are many other instances in the bible.

I think the point is: to seek a spiritual advisor, and tell him about your dreams by all means. Most of them will be hormone imbalance!

Love,
Richard.

#12 Owen Jones

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 08:35 AM

There are winners and losers, in this life and in the next. That's about all we can say on the subject. But it does get me back to a favorite theologumenon of mine, which is admittedly quite controversial, on the matter of the "unforgivable sin." A person in position of religious/spiritual authority over others, who misuses that authority and turns religion into a burden and a curse, instead of something that sets you free, is guilty of an unforgiveable sin. I think perhaps Christ is using common speech here, and not speaking in terms of theological absolutes, however, it is food for thought regarding the question of whether all Orthodox believers will be saved.

#13 Ilaria

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 09:13 AM

Starting from only two major points:
-the salvation of the thief on the cross - precisely, the way he gained it
-the Church prayers for the salvation of the dead - I would emphasise here that this is specific to the Orthodox Church.
I really think that we may assume that finally, it is a matter of choice - many fathers ascertain that there are people, so darkened, that they do not want to be saved. We have to keep the balance: not to despair, not to be sure




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