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John 17:20-21 - an analogy of Father and Son, is it just?


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#1 Lakis Papas

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:59 PM

It is written in John 17:20-21 “And not in regard to these alone do I ask, but also in regard to those who shall be believing, through their word, in me; that they all may be one, as Thou Father [art] in me, and I in Thee; that they also in us may be one, that the world may believe that Thou didst send me."

Ηow is the phrase "they all may be one" an analogy of the phrase "as Thou Father [art] in me, and I in Thee"?
And then how is this analogy connected to the phrase: "they also in us may be one". Is this an exceeding analogy?

Father and Son are not just related persons, they are one by nature.

What is the meaning of the word "one" in the phrase "that they all may be one"?

#2 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:30 AM

The Orthodox Study Bible has this to say: "Jesus prays for the future Church, which participates in the life and glory of the Father and the Son by the power of the Holy Spirit. Christians enjoy two kinds of unity: vertical, with the Trinity, and horizontal, with one another, the latter rooted in the former."

#3 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:05 AM

Clearly, it is not possible for us to be ‘one’ in the way that Christ and the Father (and the Holy Spirit) are one, but the words mean that we may be united as much as it is possible for people to be. We are to be one in faith, the faith of the Apostles: ‘one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church’. We are also to be one in love as the Persons of the Holy Trinity are. One reason why many do not believe in the Church or reject ‘organised religion’ is that they see squabbles, scandals, and divisions where there should be one faith held in love.

#4 Lakis Papas

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:38 AM

I appreciate your responses Herman and Andreas.

I understand that Church is the One Body of Christ but I fail to associate this unity to Father-Son union.

I don't intend to cavil, but I find the correspondence of "be one" of Church to "be one" of Father-Son quite enigmatic. If this analogy was not presented by the Lord I think that it would be considered overweening.

Edited by Olga, 06 November 2012 - 10:45 AM.
corrected paragraph spacing


#5 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:39 PM

Consider Matthew 5:48:

Be ye therefore perfect, even as [‘like’] your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


How can this be? Only to the extent possible to men. But by perfect, τελειοι, is meant accomplished. What is it possible for men to accomplish? Theosis: to be God-like by grace though not by nature.

Likewise with John 17:20-21, men are called to be one united by love like the Persons of the Trinity are one united by love for ‘God is love’. Not the same as (that would be by nature) but like (by grace).

#6 Norman George Barber

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

"they all may be one as Thou Father [art] in me, and I in Thee-That they may preserve peace and oneness of mind,inseparable in their faith in Us." Thus Jesus wards off the scanal of division among the disciples. If they were to lack unity and oneness of mind, how would their preaching be credible to anyone?
Above is from " THE EXPLATION OF THE HOLY GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JOHN
by
BLESSED THEOPLATE"

I hope it is of some help

Edited by Olga, 06 November 2012 - 09:30 PM.
corrected font size


#7 Lakis Papas

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:20 PM

Thank you all for your advice.

#8 Kosta

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:38 AM

All sacraments mimic a reality that is to come. In the Sacrament of Marriage the man and woman become one in Christ. Thru the participation in the Eucharist we become one with the head of his Body -
and each other.
There is a spiritual unity. We are taught in the scripture to refrain from eating the blood of animals because the life of the animal is in the blood. It is believed we become more animalistic and carnal, but partaking in the blood of Christ we become more Christ-like we receive life more abundantly. Theosis, St Athanasios taught is nothing less than God became man so man can become God.
The final consummation of the bride with the bridegroom, where we become one in Him is in the second coming as revealed in the services of holy Week when we enter into the bridal chamber

#9 Owen Jones

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

We are all created as individual members of a universal type of creature. This immediately sets up the potential for conflict. The worldly concept of unity is that which is imposed by force, coercion, violence and manipulation. The Godly is that which develops organically and is contingent on faith. That also sets up the potential for conflict. But all conflict begins with an internal conflict among the various components of a person's being. It comes from being at war within. Now, why would anyone want unity in the first place? What is it about unity that is compelling, that drives people to seek it? On the other hand, what is it that is so attractive about conflict, that many people seem to seek it out intentionally and thrive on it?




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