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Do not give your gold to the church


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#1 Norman Turner

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:12 AM

Has anyone seen a presumably Orthodox saying that begins like, Do not give your gold to the church . . . 

 

Thank you

Norm Turner, Toronto



#2 Alice

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:11 PM

Hi Norman,

 

I do not know of this expression in either Greek or English.

 

Regards,

Alice



#3 Kathryn Conant

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:48 PM

Just curious --- how does it end?



#4 Norman Turner

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:50 PM

The quote continues, roughly, give it to the poor . . . 



#5 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:46 PM

It's from St John Chrysostom, I think in 'On wealth and poverty'.  He adds, 'God wants golden hearts, not golden vessels.'



#6 Norman Turner

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 10:28 PM

Thanks Andreas . . . Norm



#7 Alice

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:32 AM

Beautiful.



#8 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:48 AM

Actually, it is from St John's Homily 50 on the Gospel of St Matthew:

 

Do you want to honor Christ’s body? Then do not scorn him in his nakedness, nor honor him here in the church with silken garments while neglecting him outside where he is cold and naked. For he who said: This is my body, and made it so by his words, also said: "You saw me hungry and did not feed me, and inasmuch as you did not do it for one of these, the least of my brothers, you did not do it for me." (Mat 25:34ff)  What we do here in the church requires a pure heart, not special garments; what we do outside requires great dedication.

Let us learn, therefore, to be men of wisdom and to honor Christ as he desires. For a person being honoured finds greatest pleasure in the honor he desires, not in the honor we think best. Peter thought he was honoring Christ when he refused to let him wash his feet; but what Peter wanted was not truly an honour, quite the opposite! Give him the honour prescribed in his law by giving your riches to the poor. For God does not want golden vessels but golden hearts.

Now, in saying this I am not forbidding you to make such gifts; I am only demanding that along with such gifts and before them you give alms. He accepts the former, but he is much more pleased with the latter. In the former, only the giver profits; in the latter, the recipient does too. A gift to the church may be taken as a form of ostentation, but an alms is pure kindness. Of what use is it to weigh down Christ’s table with golden cups, when he himself is dying of hunger? First, fill him when he is hungry; then use the means you have left to adorn his table. Will you have a golden cup made but not give a cup of water? What is the use of providing the table with cloths woven of gold thread, and not providing Christ himself with the clothes he needs? What profit is there in that? Tell me: If you were to see him lacking the necessary food but were to leave him in that state and merely surround his table with gold would he be grateful to you or rather would he not be angry? What if you were to see him clad in worn-out rags and stiff from the cold, and were to forget about clothing him and instead were to set up golden columns for him, saying that you were doing it in his honour? Would he not think he was being mocked and greatly insulted?

Apply this also to Christ when he comes along the roads as a pilgrim, looking for shelter. You do not take him in as your guest, but you decorate floor and walls and the capitals of the pillars. You provide silver chains for the lamps, but you cannot bear even to look at him as he lies chained in prison. Once again, I am not forbidding you to supply these adornments; I am urging you to provide these other things as well, and indeed to provide them first. No one has ever been accused for not providing ornaments, but for those who neglect their neighbour a hell awaits with an inextinguishable fire and torment in the company of the demons. Do not, therefore, adorn the church and ignore your afflicted brother, for he is the most precious temple of all.



#9 Alice

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:00 PM

Wow! This is very powerful! It should be mandatory reading in some churches.



#10 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 09:13 PM

Definitely some Russian churches and monasteries.



#11 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:57 AM

Acts 20:35

In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”


We should not forget that although a lot of priests, especially Metropolitans, live in luxury, the Church itself helps the poor and those in need.

Your spiritual father and your local priest know the families that are in need. My personal opinion is that it is better to give money to a trusted priest and allow him to decide who he should give it to. You remain anonymous which is best because we are told that " But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret."

#12 Effie Ganatsios

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:01 AM

http://www.stpaulsir...etofcharity.htm

#13 Dusja

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:42 AM

Definitely some Russian churches and monasteries.

I wonder why this comment wasn't deleted, as was mine, when I replied to "price lists".



#14 Alice

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:20 PM

I wonder why this comment wasn't deleted, as was mine, when I replied to "price lists".

Dear Mother Yelena,

 

I am shocked that any one would delete a post that you would make! I did not read it, but am legitimately interested in what you had to say.

 

In Christ,

Alice



#15 Olga

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:01 AM

Dear all:

 

I was the moderator who deleted Dusja's post which started a new thread, due to the closing by another moderator of the "Help with Russian site" thread which had become seriously derailed. The content and theme of Dusja's new thread was outside forum guidelines, and, though I am quite sure this was never Dusja's intention, it had the real potential to degenerate into an unseemly squabble.

 

May I remind everyone to keep this thread within guidelines: discussion of Orthodoxy from its monastic, patristic and liturgical heritage. Posts # 8 and #11 are good examples of this, and provide much food for thought and further fruitful discussion. :)



#16 Dusja

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:04 AM

Alice, it's OK, I just explained how the parishes in Russia collect the money they need for everyday costs. It's true some monasteries and parishes in Russia are wealthy, if not rich, thanks to rich patrons, but unfortunately that doesn't apply to all the parishes and monasteries. And many parishes have their own orphanages, old-age homes etc., which isn't cheap, not even in Russian conditions.






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