Jump to content


Photo
* - - - - 1 votes

Early Church Father quote regarding meeting of St. Paul with the Theotokos


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Antonios

Antonios

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,039 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:43 PM

Hi everyone!

 

I was wondering if anyone could help me find a quote from one of the early Church Fathers regarding St. Paul's (at least, I think it was St. Paul) meeting with the Theotokos.  Thank you!



#2 Antonios

Antonios

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,039 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:46 PM

okay, that was easy (seems I should have put a little more effort first before asking)!  I just found two:

 

St. Dionysius the Areopagite, Bishop of Athens, who was converted to Christ by St. Paul himself,[1] visited the Mother of God in Jerusalem and afterward wrote about it to St. Paul:

 

 "It is impossible for the human mind to grasp what I have seen not only with the eyes Of my soul, but with my bodily eyes, too. I have seen with my own eyes the most beautiful and holy Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ .... That time was for me a time of supreme happiness, r thank the most high and most g r a e i o u s God, and the Divine Virgin, the great Apostle John, and thee (St. Paul), for having mercifully granted me such a great blessing,"

 

Another Church Father that wrote about the Holy Virgin was St. Ignatius the God bearer, a disciple of the Apostle John, to whom he wrote these words:

 

"If it is made possible, I intend to come to you in order to see the faithful gathered in Jerusalem, and especially the Mother of Jesus: they say of her that she is honorable, affable, and arouses wonder in all, and all wish to see her. But who would not wish to see the Virgin and to converse with her who bore the true God? ·..With us she is glorified as the Mother of God and the Virgin full of grace and virtue. They say of her that she is joyful in troubles and persecutions, does not grieve in poverty and want, and not only does not get angry with those who offend her but does good to them still more..,.All who see her are delighted."



#3 Alice

Alice

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 673 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:28 PM

Dear Antoni,

 

Thank you for sharing those quotes, dear brother in Christ!

 

As we approach the Dormition Fast, joyfully in the Greek tradition, we will be having Paraclisis services anywhere from two to five nights a week--to honour and supplicate to our blessed and holy Theotokos, the Mother of God, and of all who call upon her!

 

She never fails to help those who honour her and seek her assistance. She is the Queen of Heaven, and we are so lucky to have her!

 

May she intercede for us always!

 

Iper Agia Theotokos, soson imas! Most Holy Theotokos intercede and save us! Amen.

 

May God bless you and your family, dear Antoni

In Christ,

Alice


Edited by Alice, 24 July 2013 - 06:29 PM.


#4 Ignatius Cox

Ignatius Cox

    Junior Poster

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 31 July 2013 - 02:38 AM

Antonios, I am not sure where you found that particular quote from St. Ignatius. There are several letters that are considered pseudo-Ignatian, maybe it is one of those? He does speak of the Virgin Mary, however, in his letter to the Ephesians:

 

" . . . Our God, Jesus the Christ, was concieved by Mary, in God's plan being sprung from the seed of David and from the Holy Spirit. . . . Now, Mary's virginity and her giving birth escaped the notice of the prince of this world, as did the Lord's death - those three secrets crying to be told, but wrought in God's silence." Letter to the Ephesians, 18:2-19:1

 

He also mentions her in the Letter to the Trallians, 9:1 and maybe in some others as well.

 

In Christ,

 

Ignatius



#5 David Lindblom

David Lindblom

    Regular Poster

  • Validating
  • PipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 09 April 2014 - 03:37 AM

Wouldn't the Theotokos have long been dead by the time of Ignatius?  I'm skweemish w/ over-the-top descriptions of Mary as being overwhelming or somewhat beyond the norm of a human.  She was no such thing in the Gospels. 



#6 Kosta

Kosta

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,516 posts

Posted 09 April 2014 - 04:40 AM

Yes most likely the quote from Antonios is from the pseudo-Ignatius.  Interesting as the quote from this disputed text would mean it attempted to convey a very early date in the ministry of Ignatius. I know that a tradition exists that Ignatius was the child that sat on Christ's lap.  Would be interesting to know whether the Theotokos was still alive when he was ordained to any level of ministry in the Antiochan church.



#7 Rdr Andreas

Rdr Andreas

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,028 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:33 PM

 I'm skweemish w/ over-the-top descriptions of Mary as being overwhelming or somewhat beyond the norm of a human.  She was no such thing in the Gospels. 

 

St John Maximovich says that we should be careful not to set the Mother of God so high as to be like a fourth member of the Trinity. She lived quietly and modestly.  But I think those who met her who had spiritual eyes to see would have been more than impressed by her who is the greatest human being who will ever have lived, who contained God in her womb, and is 'more honourable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim'.



#8 Bryan J. Maloney

Bryan J. Maloney

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 364 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:17 PM

It is too bad that in the West, there is such widespread ignorance of these writings. There is an unbroken first-person witness to the Church going all the way back. What we have in the West is "Bible Times", then at least a few centuries of nothing--no living continuity--then stuff happens. Then there's more nothing. Then more stuff happens. For Protestants, it's even worse, since in their view, the "time of nothing" goes from the end of Acts to the 15th century.



#9 David Lindblom

David Lindblom

    Regular Poster

  • Validating
  • PipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:59 PM

St John Maximovich says that we should be careful not to set the Mother of God so high as to be like a fourth member of the Trinity. She lived quietly and modestly.  But I think those who met her who had spiritual eyes to see would have been more than impressed by her who is the greatest human being who will ever have lived, who contained God in her womb, and is 'more honourable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim'.

Agree completely.  We've all been around people who were very and specially Godly and it is always a blessing.  I imagine the Theotokos was quite impressive at a young age….who among us would have responded as she did to Gabriel?  Just so this is all balanced w/ the knowledge that her being "more honorable than the cherubim…." was due to her intimate relationship to Christ.  That's why she is virtually always shown w/ Christ in some way in icons of her.  She was still a normal human albeit a very great one!



#10 Rdr Andreas

Rdr Andreas

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,028 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:53 PM

The greatest who will ever have lived.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users