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New petition for liturgical litanies

liturgy petition

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#1 Monk Herman

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 06:00 PM

Fathers and friends

 

Once upon a time we prayed for those who travel by land or by sea. In the twentieth century it became necessary to add a petition for those who travel by air.

 

We've now been in space for more than half a century. People travel into space almost on a regular basis--and it will become regular just as soon as spaceports now under construction make it possible to travel from New Mexico to Hong Kong in 90 minutes. People live in space for months at a time and carry holy ikons among their personal possessions. In a few years we'll have people travelling to Mars.

 

I believe it's time we added a new petition:

 

For those who travel by land, by sea, and by air, and beyond the air.

 

The petition at present doesn't cover space travelers. I would phrase it this way because to me, "those who travel into outer space" somehow sounds almost corny. Someone I talked to suggested (off the top of his head) that the petition for those who travel by air includes the aerial realm. But then we'd sort of be botching the English language. The "aerial realm" really means in the air; and for us it also has the special connotation of the noetic realm of angelic spirits, fallen or otherwise. And that, to borrow a phrase from Shakespeare, is "out of the air."

 

What do you all think of this suggestion?

 

And asking your prayers,

Herman the batty

 

 



#2 Reader Luke

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:59 PM

Fathers and friends

 

Once upon a time we prayed for those who travel by land or by sea. In the twentieth century it became necessary to add a petition for those who travel by air.

 

We've now been in space for more than half a century. People travel into space almost on a regular basis--and it will become regular just as soon as spaceports now under construction make it possible to travel from New Mexico to Hong Kong in 90 minutes. People live in space for months at a time and carry holy ikons among their personal possessions. In a few years we'll have people travelling to Mars.

 

I believe it's time we added a new petition:

 

For those who travel by land, by sea, and by air, and beyond the air.

 

The petition at present doesn't cover space travelers. I would phrase it this way because to me, "those who travel into outer space" somehow sounds almost corny. Someone I talked to suggested (off the top of his head) that the petition for those who travel by air includes the aerial realm. But then we'd sort of be botching the English language. The "aerial realm" really means in the air; and for us it also has the special connotation of the noetic realm of angelic spirits, fallen or otherwise. And that, to borrow a phrase from Shakespeare, is "out of the air."

 

What do you all think of this suggestion?

 

And asking your prayers,

Herman the batty

 

I know a Priest who already does this, he says "For those who travel by land, by sea, by air, and in space."

Which I do like how he phrases it, because really, you can't get beyond travel in space. Unless we somehow found out that the multiverse theory is true, and we could travel to another universe, but then who knows how things would change, and such travel would be a near impossibility without dying.

 

I support it, it should be added.


Edited by Devin B., 26 July 2013 - 10:02 PM.


#3 Lakis Papas

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 10:20 PM

Nice suggestion.  :)



#4 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:08 PM

The specialist in this is Hegoumen Job (Talats) of the Holy Trinity St Sergius Lavra.  I know him quite well and he has spoken about his interest in the cosmos.  Here is a YouTube film of his:



#5 Ben Johnson

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:30 PM

Shall we include various dimensions? ;)



#6 Herman Blaydoe

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 12:20 PM

Are you aware of anyone aside from Buckaroo Banzai who travels regularly to other dimensions? If so, I would certainly mention them in your private prayers. Otherwise it is the bishops' call.

 

I have been to more than one parish that has added "and space" to their litanies. Of course in Orthodox time this is still pretty new-fangled stuff.



#7 Richard A. Downing

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:47 AM

How about:  "...those who travel wherever, whenever, and however..."

 

Seriously this is each bishop's call, it's his liturgy after all.



#8 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:12 AM

Surely the liturgy is the Church's, not each bishop's.  Bishops' apostolic mission is to administer or oversee the administration of the Church's sacraments.  Perhaps better would be a decision of the Holy Synod of a jurisdiction rather than of individual bishops.



#9 Kosta

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:50 AM

If you travel by air, then that would include space travel.  But if anyone is that considered about it along with interdimension travel just substitute the word "air" with 'through the firmament', or use the greek  who travel in the 'stereoma'. Afterall it is biblical.



#10 Olga

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 12:01 PM

If you travel by air, then that would include space travel.  But if anyone is that considered about it along with interdimension travel just substitute the word "air" with 'through the firmament', or use the greek  who travel in the 'stereoma'. Afterall it is biblical.

 

Stereoma? I would have thought the appropriate Greek word would be diastima. ;)



#11 Kosta

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 01:04 AM

I'm saying eliminate the word air altogether and use the biblical word 'firmament' from Genesis 1. In the Sept that word is stereoma. The entire realm which is above the surface of the earth.

#12 Reader Luke

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 05:48 AM

I'm saying eliminate the word air altogether and use the biblical word 'firmament' from Genesis 1. In the Sept that word is stereoma. The entire realm which is above the surface of the earth.


I understand what you are getting at, but really it isn't "above" the surface of the earth. Considering the earth is just a hunk of matter orbiting around a star, orbiting around in a galaxy and moving through the universe. Obviously from our perspective it's above, but universally, it's not. I would suggest a less earth-centric wording, considering in the next 100-200 years, travel outside our planet will become far more commonplace and accessible.

I would also separate the two, because travel in our atmosphere and travel in space are two very different things. One, you literally fly, using the atmosphere and friction against it to flu around. In space, there's no air, really, almost nothing except light, waves etc... In space you just go, and are propelled by yourself any any bodies out there.

I mean, instead of trying to shorten it, just let it go and distinguish air and space.

#13 Jim McQuiggin

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:09 AM

Why not something like: "For those who travel by land, by sea, by air, and beyond"?



#14 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:30 AM

Or ' . . . and where no man has gone before.'



#15 Ilya Zhitomirskiy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 04:48 PM

If space travel becomes widespread, then the petition is justified. But if only a few astronauts travel into space, then that can be used as an additional petition in services done for the benefit of the astronauts (Liturgy at their church, Moleben, etc.). I think that the petition "That we may be delivered from enemies both visible and invisible, and that there may be instilled within us oneness of mind, brotherly love and piety" should be included in ALL jurisdictions, not just ROCOR, because this is a beautiful and appropriate petition for everyone.



#16 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:51 PM

A pity we have to petition for brotherly love.



#17 Olga

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:13 AM

If space travel becomes widespread, then the petition is justified. But if only a few astronauts travel into space, then that can be used as an additional petition in services done for the benefit of the astronauts (Liturgy at their church, Moleben, etc.). I think that the petition "That we may be delivered from enemies both visible and invisible, and that there may be instilled within us oneness of mind, brotherly love and piety" should be included in ALL jurisdictions, not just ROCOR, because this is a beautiful and appropriate petition for everyone.

 

Greek service books from before the 1970s do contain this petition.



#18 Father David Moser

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:40 PM

If space travel becomes widespread, then the petition is justified. But if only a few astronauts travel into space, then that can be used as an additional petition in services done for the benefit of the astronauts (Liturgy at their church, Moleben, etc.). I think that the petition "That we may be delivered from enemies both visible and invisible, and that there may be instilled within us oneness of mind, brotherly love and piety" should be included in ALL jurisdictions, not just ROCOR, because this is a beautiful and appropriate petition for everyone.

 

A pity we have to petition for brotherly love.

 

This petition has nothing to do with "space travel" or any other current situation, but is a relic of the days when the Russian Church was separated by political lines (the iron curtain).  The phrase "enemies visible and invisible" was substituted for the phrase "godless civil authority" after the fall of the Soviet Union in recognition that the new civil authority was not hostile to Church life.  This was one of the early steps towards the reconciliation that was realized in 2006.  The petition remains in the ROCOR texts because nothing changes fast in the Orthodox Church and this has been so ingrained that it would be disruptive to remove it - besides it is good to pray for good relations in a part of the Church that embraces a worldwide diaspora.

 

Fr David



#19 Reader Luke

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 01:20 AM

If space travel becomes widespread, then the petition is justified. But if only a few astronauts travel into space, then that can be used as an additional petition in services done for the benefit of the astronauts (Liturgy at their church, Moleben, etc.).

 

Should we not pray for all the astronauts though? And especially the Orthodox in space? Look at the prayers for the catechumens, I've been told that they should be recited even when the parish has no catechumens, because it is not just for that parish, but all catechumens throughout the world.

 

Also, barring any major worldwide disaster, space travel will become more and more widespread and common. Already NASA has been encouraging private companies to take over near-earth missions while it focuses on missions to other planets. Russia is also to continue near-earth space projects, and will be the primary entity sustaining the ISS for the next decade it seems.



#20 Rdr Andreas

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:05 AM

This is all very anglocentric - what expression might be used in koine Greek, Church Slavonic, and Romanian?  For Greek how about διαστημοπλεόντων?  Or does make the Greeks here fall about laughing??







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