Jump to content


- - - - -

Types of liturgies


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Byzcath1

Guest_Byzcath1
  • Guests

Posted 25 October 2003 - 09:45 PM

Slava Isusu Christu!

I was wondering how many liturgies exist within
the Universal Church.

Through the Theotokos
Daniel


#2 Guest_Sherman Cheung

Guest_Sherman Cheung
  • Guests

Posted 27 October 2003 - 01:26 AM

There is only one Universal Church and R. Catholicism and Uniatism (Byzantine Catholics) is not the Church Universal.

But getting to your Question:

3

The Common: Saint John Chrysostom
The Not-So Common: Saint Basil
The Lenten: Presanctified
The Really Rare as in Celebrated One time a year:
Saint James.

The Roman Rite, Novus ordo are Invalid to use your Catholic Terms.


#3 Marie+Duquette

Marie+Duquette

    Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 302 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 27 October 2003 - 01:50 PM

Sherman

Concerning the Holy Liturgy
"The Roman Rite as invalid ..."

Why is it that certain Jurisdictions, as far as I know -= ROCOR =- and the -=Antiocians =- and perhaps others, allow the use of the Roman Rite in Liturgy?

So, would these Liturgies be "invalid" according to your post. What happens to the people who in good Faith attend these Liturgies? It seems to me that we humans cannot put limits to the Action of God, and to the Grace poured out through the Holy Spirit.

Forgive me, but I am not very educated in the Orthodox Faith, but in my inner self where God-Trinity dwells, I do feel and intuite and sense that there is much much more than our human mind can hold and know and understand concerning the UNIVERSAL CHURCH.

Marie




#4 Richard Leigh

Richard Leigh

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 398 posts

Posted 29 October 2003 - 09:45 PM

Dear Marie,

The Roman Rite that you're seeing in the St. Andrew Prayer Book is being attributed to St. Gregory I, who was Patriarch of Rome in the sixth century, way before the schism, and (even though he promulgated the so-called "primacey," he continued in communion with the other patriarchs.

Any what we call "acretions" or additional things that got added to the mass after his time that were not Orthodox will have been deleted before inclusion of the liturgy in an Orthodox service book. You might compare it to a Roman Missal to see the difference. Certainly as it appears in St. Andrew's it would not be considered a "valid mass" among the Roman Catholics.(St. Gregorry I had dedicated a monastery to St. Andrew, hence, I expect, the use of his name for the service book).

Actually, this rite is said to have derived from that of St. Peter, just as Basil's did from St. James. There is also a liturgy of St. Mark but I think it is retained by the non-Chalcedonians, but I'm not sure about that. Also the two of the Seventy, Addai and Mari have a liturgy which I know is used by non-Chalcedonians, I don't know about anyone else.

Richard


#5 Nick Katich

Nick Katich

    Regular Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 39 posts

Posted 21 November 2010 - 10:25 PM

To answer this thread, let us first define the "Universal Church" as the pre-Ephesus Council Church. There were a number of Liturgies, among them (i) the Western Syrian, which evolved into the Alexandrian (eventually and today commonly named the Liturgy of St. Mark); (ii) the Eastern Syrian, which evolved into the today commonly known as the Liturgy of St. Basil and the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (although with significant post-6th Century synthesis in the Anaphora); (iii) the Liturgy of Addai and Mari (which is still used in the Nestorian community; (iv) the Gallician (which slowly phased out in the West and was ultimatley replaced by the Tridentine); (v) Jerusalem Liturgy which is today commonly know as the Liturgy of St. James but is a synthesis of the two Syriac Litugies; (vi) the Mesorabic, which was primarly used in Spain but which was ultimately replace by the Roman Canon; (vii) the Ambrosian, which was ultimately replaced by the Roman Canon; and (viii) the Roman Canon which evolved under Leo the Great and Gregory the Great and was closely related to the Western Syrian/Alexandrian but was eventually replaced by the Tridentine. There were other local variations but the foregoing are the main strands.

They were all acceptable and all the various Churches that used them were in communion pre-Ephesus. The central differences in them and the central relationship of one to another (where related) centered on the anaphoric formula. Curiously, the Liturgy of Addai and Mari contained no Wolds of Institution but was universally accepted as valid. The Roman Canon and the Mezorabic had a weak if non-existent Epiclesis, but not as weak as the Tridentine and today's post-Vatican II Epiclesiks.

All of them were quite different in the pre-Epistle and pre-Gospel readings and all of them were quite different in the pre-Anaphora portions. As indicated above, all of them were also different in the Anaphora. What they all had in common was the Anamnesis (remembrance). This was always considered to be critical in the "Universal Church", if I may use that term in a loose sense (since there is no "Universal Church in the common Roman understanding -- only a communion of local churches). For those unfamiliar with the Anamnesis, it is the recalling by us to God of the history of man, salvation and the revelation of God. For those familiar with the Liturgies of St. Basil and St. John Chysostom, it begins with "It is meet and right" and ends with "Remembering...the Cross, the tomb...etc." and before "the Thine of Thine Own".

Hope this helps.

#6 Paul Cowan

Paul Cowan

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,064 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:29 PM

The pagans seized St Mark when he was serving the Liturgy. They beat him, dragged him through the streets and threw him in prison. There St Mark was granted a vision of the Lord Jesus Christ, Who strengthened him before his sufferings. On the following day, the angry crowd again dragged the saint through the streets to the courtroom, but along the way St Mark died saying, "Into Your hands, O Lord, I commend my spirit."

This was on April 4, 63. The Church celebrates his memory on April 25.


I was just reading the lives of the saints for today (St. Mark) and was curious about the Liturgy he was serving. I see in the above post, it was a recognized Liturgy. Other than what Nick Katich calls a remembrance Liturgy; do we know anything about it?

Paul

#7 Anthony Stokes

Anthony Stokes

    Very Frequent Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 413 posts
  • Orthodox Christian Member

Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:16 PM

Here is what OrthodoxWiki says:"
The Divine Liturgy of St. Mark is the primary worship service of the Orthodox Church of Alexandria. The oldest extant copy of this liturgy dates from the fourth century.

This liturgy is currently served annually on the feast day of the Apostle Mark at Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York) of the (Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia) and at Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology (Brookline, Massachusetts). The text authorized by the Holy Synod of ROCOR is the translation of Protopriest John Shaw, (now Bishop Jerome of Manhattan), and is based upon the 1586 edition of Patriarch Meletios Pegas of Alexandria and the 1890 edition of St. Nectarios of Aegina. "

Here is a link to the text:
http://www.allmercif...turgy-Mark.html

Sbdn. Anthony




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users