Posted 14 September 2004 - 03:34 PM
From the Greek we learnt at seminary I think that whereas the Greek in Scripture is Koine (only NT or also Septuagint OT?)while that of the hymnography is Byzantine Greek ie of a later stage.
Hopefully someone of greater knowledge will answer this in a fuller way than I have.
In Christ- Fr Raphael
Posted 14 September 2004 - 03:39 PM
Posted 14 September 2004 - 08:00 PM
But what is BYZANTINE? That word has no place in speaking of anything Greek following the founding of New Rome by Constantine. It was devised by a Roman Catholic French historian in the 1600's writing a history of the latter Roman Empire of Constantinople, and applied in a derogatory manner which has been perpetuated by western historians from that day.
The true Orthodox churches do not use that word in respect to themselves, their liturgy or their humnography. Those eastern churches that have accepted papal domination use this word frequently. It is an utterly blasphemous word in my opinion, yet our people are slowly adopting it also.
Posted 15 September 2004 - 04:17 AM
Posted 15 September 2004 - 10:31 AM
Please forgive me - I didn't know I was using a derogatory word with negative connotations. It's good I asked so that I am taught.
Thank you Olga and John for your answers. So, just to summarize, the current Greek in liturgical services.. is it closer to Koine or Attic? thank you, sotirmou.
Posted 15 September 2004 - 02:36 PM
"So the current Greek in liturgical services: Is it closer to Koine or Attic?"
Koine. And indeed, Demotic Greek is much closer to Koine than to Attic, because it is the cultural development of Koine Greek, and that culture, being predominantly Christian, has been very stable.
When I took Attic Greek in college long ago, we had a couple of guys from Athens there, and they did no better than we did once we got the alphabet mastered in our sophmoric brains... Yet they had no trouble with koine Greek, having only an occassional question with it...
Katharevouska Greek is a fairly recent development, in that it is seen by some as a "reaching back" to the glory days of classical Greece, from Homer through Aristotle, and a kind of revival of those times in their language and culture. It is seen by many in Greece as an attempt to paganize the culture. Katharevouska is very close to Attic Greek - As close to it as can be obtained in the revival of any language... Some like to think that it IS Attic Greek...
Yet there is another Greek, the Ekklesiastical Greek, or the Church Greek, that is virtually identical with Koine Greek of the Bible, and that has not 'developed' as the Demotic has... And this Greek is the Greek spoken in the Church outside of Greece, and is the Greek of the Liturgy of the Church, indeed is the Greek of ancient Constantinople, and the whole of the Greek speaking "Roman Empire" of ancient times. Latin never became a "Lingua Franca" of that empire, but Greek. It never even became a Lingua Franca of the west, but instead became the ecclesiastical language of the west. It was born in Italy, and was used by Rome to administer the Roman empire. It just never became popular like the Greek did when Alexander first conquered the territories...
So the upshot is that the Greek Liturgical language is virtually identical with the Liturgical Language of St. John Chrysostom, and before him as well... The differences should be as small [or smaller] than that between a rural southern Alabama priest in the US saying the same chanted liturgical words as a New Yorker in services.
I am told that learning Katharevouska Greek is really hard for Athenians... And that the country is very divided on issues of language and the revival of the pre-Christian classical pagan culture which it is seen as re-introducing...
But asking a Greek is best, and asking a bunch of them is far more entertaining!
Posted 26 September 2004 - 04:24 PM
Thanks very much. Excellent, beneficial answer! God blesses you.
Now, related but more detailed questions: I struggle with some pronounciation issues in Greek generally.
1) The first being the 'nt' cluster. A simple example is the word 'panta'. Could you (or anyone else) provide how you would pronounce this in Attic, Koine, and Demotic? To my very limited knowledge, it seems like it's 'panda' in Demotic and 'panta' in Koine/Attic. Is this correct? If not, corrections please.
2) The second s 'pn' as in 'pneuma'. What's the rule with the p? Are there times when the p is silent? Again, clarification please.
I know I ask a lot of questions. It is my cross. Your prayers. mina.
Posted 27 September 2004 - 03:02 AM
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users