Need for written prayers?

[Sean Kealey]

I am a Christian, I am not Orthodox, but very intrigued with "Orthodoxy". I have many different questions, but as I was just reading about prayers for the non-orthodox dead, why is there a need to have written prayers? I have noticed there are all kinds of prayers to all kinds of saints for all kinds of things. I don't understand the idea of praying to the saints, and I am curious why a genuine prayer from the heart to the Lord is insufficient (seemingly). I am sure this is a common question from someone not of the Orthodox faith. Like I said I am very...well, intrigued is the best word, with Orthodoxy, and have many questions. "Stumbling blocks" if you will. I won't assault you with a litany of those questions now, this one will suffice. Thank you all.

Sean

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Sean,

The reason that the Orthodox pray so often with written prayers is that these are the prayers of the saints. And in turn these prayers are fruits of the Holy Spirit since the saints lived their lives so much in Christ.

It is not that we cannot as you write, pray "with a genuine prayer from the heart." We may do this and often do especially as we grow in Christ and learn what it means to pray.

But a very important thing that we are all taught as Orthodox is that there is true and false prayer. There is as you say genuine prayer but there is also false prayer which basically comes down to being selfish prayer.

Selfish prayer of course would include asking for worldly things. But for us selfish prayer also includes prayer that is based on selfish feelings- so we are strongly discouraged from emotional feelings in prayer. For us prayer should always be based on sobriety and indeed sobriety is a great virtue that we as Orthodox are trained to follow in our spiritual lives. This in turn is because sobriety is tied in so closely to the effort to not live by the sinful passions- or as we put it in Orthodoxy- to try to lead a life of dispassion.

So the written prayers are not meant to prevent us from genuine & personal prayer but rather are meant to precisely teach us what this really means. And this learning takes many years so that we do not go astray.

Plus- we also like to be in the company of the saints who prayed so genuinely from their own hearts. When we read from their prayers it is really sharing in their prayerful experience & in turn the saints sharing their experience with us. The saints are very loving and sharing with us!

I hope this explanation helps a bit.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Fr Seraphim (Black)]

I was once in a car with a potential novice to an Orthodox Monastery. He is now a Ryassaphore monk.

Previous to this, he had been a famous Baptist preacher in Scotland for ten years.

This particular car journey was lengthy and I was talking about the miracles of St. John, Archbishop of Shanghai and San Francisco.

After a few moments, the novice cut me off, and said 'why waste time praying to Saints when you can go to the Big Man Himself'.

Without going into detail, I will use another example.

Every year in Romania on October 14th is celebrated the Feast of Saint Paraskeva, an 11th century Serbian Saint who is to this day totally incorrupt, as is St. John and countless others.

I have attended her Feast Day twice. Each year between two and three million Orthodox Christains walk, take a bus, or train and wait in a long line that stretches for miles to venerate her and ask her prayers. Notable are the number of possessed who flock to her for intercession.

The only comparable number of people drawn to any event in America, is the Super Bowl in January. But Super Bowl numbers are a far cry from three million poor people standing in line.

Romania is a very poor country, the poverty is unbelievable. Yet these poor pilgrims endure the October temperatures and patiently wait their turn.

In general the Feast lasts three day to allow all the people to venerate and ask her prayers.

[Sean Kealey]

Fr Raphael Vereshack, thank you for your response. It makes sense. Especially hearing the kinds of prayers you tend to hear in the protestant world, very self-centered and selfish.

Seraphim Black, I also appreciate your taking time to respond, but I don't think I understand the point you are making and I am curious what you told the ex-baptist preacher regarding why you don't just, "go to the big man". Please don't get me wrong, I know you do pray to the Lord, and have read much concerning hesychasm and the Jesus prayer. The Way of the Pilgrim is what got me reading up on the Orthodox faith. In fact, I have probably read more than any of you would recommend someone read who doesn't have the experience of the Church to go with it.

Anyway, though I may still have trouble with the idea, I am glad I have a better understanding as to why you pray prayers of past saints. Do the saints have a more direct access to the Lord? Why are prayers made to a saint asking them to pray on your behalf? (Maybe that is what you were trying to communicate to me, Seraphim, and I just didn't get it.)

Thanks again for your responses.

Sean

[Alex Haig]

Written Prayers
We pray written prayers because they are good prayers.

Prayers to Saints
Has anyone every asked you to pray for them? Or you asked for the prayers of others? Well, in the Orthodox Church we ask for the prayers of the Saints, those who are joined to God, since they are as much our Brothers and Sisters in Christ as our friend standing next to us in Church.

With love in Christ

Alex

[Scamandrius]

Sean,

I am currently a catechumen in the Orthodox Church and your questions about the prayers and invocation to the saints were, in many ways, my own. I had come from a Lutheran background, where, though asking Mary to intercede for us was confirmed in the doctrines of the Book of Concord, it is not something we actually did, because it was "too Catholic." But as I read more and started to participate more in the life of the church, which is, above all, through prayer, I found out the following.

First, prayer to the Saints, asking them for intercessors is no different from asking your best friend to beseech the Lord on your behalf. We are saints of the Church Militant. The Saints are of the Church Triumphant. Because someone is dead does not exclude them from the church. We ask those Saints to pray for us because of humility we should all have towards God. The Priest, during Liturgy declares that we are bold to call upon God as father and then pray the Lord's Prayer. Calling upon God should always involve humility and invoking the saints reinforces that humility. We do not pray to Saints because we think they were great guys, but because they shined with the light of Christ and reflected Christ to the world. That is why their icons have candles in front of them, because they reflected the eternal light that is Christ. I understand your hesitation; I was hesitant at first as well.

As for written prayers, it is common for many of different backgrounds to regard formal written prayers as legalistic and without any piety. We must remember that even these written prayers were at one time spontaneously uttered by someone and eventually written down. When I first began my journey and started using those prayers, I thought that for the first time someone had expressed exactly what I had been trying to do on my own for so long! Also, it is important to remember that just because a prayer was authored by a Saint does not make its recitation or use less devotional from the one praying. We must make all prayers our own, even if someone gets the credit for it. What I mean is that, at first, we read the prayers with our minds, concentrating on what is written, how to say it and so on. We do that enough times, the prayer moves from the mind into the heart, where we need no longer to recite with our voices because our heart will pray unceasingly, which is what we are commanded to do by St. Paul.

Prayer is hard, yet joyful. It is something from which we can easily distract ourselves with thoughts of other things. But pray unceasingly and pray for help from the Saints and saints. Metropolitan Philaret has a wonderful prayer which asks God to help him pray for that which he does not know. But make prayer your own.

A theologian prays. An example of a theologian is someone who venerates a broken icon in a broken church in the former Soviet Union.

I have given you my experience from my own journey. I hope it helps.

Scamandrius
unworthy servant of God

[Sean Kealey]

Thank you, Scamandrius. I really appreciate your heart and your response. This kind of leads me to another question which I am sure does not belong here but goes with these responses: Is it Orthodox belief that we go directly to Christ after we die, or do just the saints or what?

If I need to post this in some other thread let me know.

Thanks again.

[Trudy]

Dear Sean,

You are asking very good questions. Do not be discouraged by answers you receive. Think on them and ask God to help you understand them. He will help.

We do go to the Big Man Himself in prayer. We do so often. But just as we ask others to pray for us, we ask the Saints to pray for us too. When you think about it, they are physically closer to God that we are at this present moment. Thus why not ask their prayers? I figure the more holy people pray for me, the better off I am! :-)

In Christ, Athanasia

[Sean Kealey]

I will continue, as I have been, asking God for understanding. Thank you for you encouragement. I wonder, are there any prayers you could recommend that have to do with asking the Lord for understanding? Thanks again, Athanasia.

Sean

[Klod]

Dear Sean,

intercession, is very essential in the way man was created. It helps to understand that man is more than an individual in his own right, part of a whole humanity which is in many ways synonymous to an individual person.


It is through mediation that man inherits the fallen nature.


It is again through a person that God became Man.



The same way sin in world is spread though mediation, people pushing each other into sin, so is salvation spread also through mediation.




If Christ came to meet humanity in a personal way, but through Mary, He can be born and formed into your heart in the same manner, meeting you personally through the same person, Mary.


The mediation of Mary in this case does not interrupt the direct approach of God to Man, rather it gives that directeness its whole meaning which is a so to say individual-communal meeting.


If we cannot imagine a Christmas, as an event, without the presence of Mary, why should we wonder that Her presence is normal and necessary when that Christmas should take place in one's own heart?!

The same goes for Saints, those who gave birth and were born in Christ according to their full capacities.


Since we form a Body in Christ, consider them as your best capacity and ability to address to your Head!

[Father David Moser]

I wonder, are there any prayers you could recommend that have to do with asking the Lord for understanding?

Off the top of my head:

"O Lord I believe, help Thou my unbelief!"

Prayer before the Gospel
Shine forth within our hearts the incorruptible light of Thy knowledge, O Master, Lover of mankind, and open the eyes of our mind to the understanding of the preaching of Thy Gospel; instill in us also the fear of Thy blessed commandments, that, trampling down all lusts of the flesh, we may pursue a spiritual way of life, being mindful of and doing all that is well-pleasing to Thee. For Thou art the enlightenment of our souls and bodies, O Christ God, and unto Thee do we send up glory together with Thine unoriginate Father, and Thy most holy and good and life-creating Spirit, now and ever, and unto the ages of ages. Amen."

Second Vesperal prayer:
"O Lord, rebuke us not in Thine anger, nor chasten us in Thy wrath, but deal with us according to Thy mercy, O Physician and Healer of our souls. Guide us to the haven of Thy will; enlighten the eyes of our hearts to the knowledge of Thy truth; and grant unto us that the remainder of the present day and the whole time of our life may be peaceful and sinless, through the intercessions of the holy Mother of God and of all the saints.
For Thine is the dominion, and Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory; of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto the ages of ages. Amen."

Fr David Moser