'Pray continually': 1 Thessalonians 5.17

[Laura Nee]

"17pray continually;"

What exactly does this mean?

Is it a way of life, should our every move and thought somehow
involve prayer? Is it an
attitude of the heart and soul?

What do you all think?

I am asking because I was reading a book called, _The Way of the
Pilgrim_ about a
man in Russia who heard a homily regarding the above passage. The
book is set in
the early part of the 19th century. This man essentially becomes a
wondering
monastic type...always looking for the answer to the question about
prayer without
ceasing.

He visits a monastery and befriends a monk who encourages him to say,
"The Jesus
Prayer" 100 times a day, broken into I believe increments of 30 using
what we
Orthodox would call a prayer rope although the word was translated
"rosary" in the
book.

The monk eventually says the prayer 1,000 times a day and he is then
instructed to
say it with every beat of his heart...which obviously would require
some concentration
and discipline! The monk reported that he was able to go about his
daily living with
this prayer sort of continually praying in the background.

So anyway...I gave up reading the book at this point due to
discouragement. I simply
don't have many quiet moments to sit and tick off the Jesus prayer
1,000 times a day
and certainly not with every beat of my heart. I was interrupted
three times just
writing this post! I have two young children ages 2 1/2 and 16 months
by way of
explanation. I also don't have a prayer rope as yet....I use my
fingers and try and say
the prayer 30 times before I fall asleep.

Blessings,

Laura

[Owen Jones]

Your priest could probably give you some good advice on prayer appropriate to your circumstances.

[Melissa]

Dear Laura,

I was advised to start very slowly with the Jesus prayer, by my spiritual father soon after converting to Orthodoxy. It's a very powerful prayer. I can't say one prayer without providing myself with distractions, so at first I didn't say it at all unless I could be alone and quiet. I often was reduced to tears by my sinful wanderings of the mind. From this I learned much about myself, and my relationship with Jesus. My spiritual father encouraged me by NOT adding more "ropes" to my day, but by letting me know it takes years to be able pray this prayer of the heart 'well'.

Now, often during the day I say the prayer as a plea for help. Not lightly, but again, from the heart to the extent that I'm able.

On another note, I do believe that every move we make can be done prayerfully, with reverence, although I'm a miserbale failure at this. I think there's a tradition about this that others probably can tell you more about. I take comfort in the belief that God sees my efforts and encourages me, and is there with His hand out to lift me up before I know to reach for it.

Have you read "My Heart's True Home" by I think Fredericka Matthews? I believe she writes about being an Orthodox woman in the midst of many distractions. I hope I have the title right.

Melissa

[Melissa]

Laura- and see the Monachos main page, the Jesus Prayer information area for some good articles. M.

[Fr Averky]

Dear Laura,

Before I start, let me say that there are those who are not going to agree with me, but I can only speak as a convert, a monk, and a priest.

If I could stop any book from being read by new Orthodox Christians, it would be the Way of the Pilgrim. Why? Well, because it is not appropriate for new Orthodox Christians for two reasons.

1. The Philokalia is deceptively simple, and it contains spiritual concepts and instructions which can only be fully understood by those who have spent many years in prayer and spiritual struggle., One of our spiritual fathers here said, "It is like giving a text book about advanced physics to a fifth grader." As was suggested to me when I first *met Fathers Seraphim and Herman, it is best to start with the Lives of the Saints, for in them we find many examples of how Christians reached theosis. We have to resist the temptation to rush into things, but must be willing to proceed with caution, and if possible, direction.
2. The Jesus Prayer is also something which should not be approached by the newly-converted, for it can be spiritually dangerous for the untried. This is so because their is a certain spiritual intensity involved in the Jesus Prayer, for in time it descends to the heart and becomes permanent there. However, the hater of Christ and the destroyer of souls wages particularly viscious warfare against those who would attempt to say the Prayer of the Heart before they are "in condition," that is, discerning enough to be cautiouis. Over the years, we have had people who have showed up here claiming to be accomplished in the Prayer. Alas, more often than not, they were seriously deluded, and with the increased temptaions which are to be experienced in a monastery, they basically went over the edge and sometimes began to act in a very bizarre mnner. Later we were rto hear th the person had either had some sorer of a break down, or had left the Church altogether..

Laura. as a person new to Orthodoxy, a wife and mother, you need to keep to the basics; Say your morning and evening prayers faithfully, keep ther Fasts of the Church as best you can, go to Divine Services as frequently as is possible for you, try to take some time each day to do some spiritual reading, especially from the New Testament. If you want to say the Jesus Prayer, say only about fifty,slowly and attentively and make sure to say them softly out loud. Also, if you find yourself in heavy traffic, a long line at the bank, or are sitting in the dentist's waiting room, say the Jesus Prayer quietly to yourself.

Laura, take it easy, and do not expect so much from yourself so soon. God is loving and patient, and it will please Him if you make small efforts from the heart, and with sincere humility. Offer to God sorrow for your sins, gratitude for blessings gained, generosity to those less fortunate, and be a good wife and loving mother, and a Christian example to others. We cannot attain virtues on our own, for they are gifts: beg God to give you virtues, and hearing your humble and persistent pleadings, He will grant them to you.

Be assured of my poor prayers and those of our forum. Keep in mind that you are never alone, for as Our Saviour Himself tells us, His Father knows about every hair on our heads. God bless you, and don't bite off more than you can chew...

In Christ,

Fr. A.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Laura, welcome to the forum!

The Jesus Prayer is of utmost importance to all Orthodox. It is a way of praying continually as we have been instructed to do.

Monastics are taught to use it constantly but we, who live our ordinary lives, find this hard - at least I do.

If you count the number of times you say the Jesus prayer, doesn't that actually negate its meaning? Just say it with sincerity and love whenever you can and it will soon seem natural to you. A couple of days ago I read an instruction from one of the Holy Fathers - "Let us learn to pray by Holy Theofan the Recluse.."

In general :

1. Never pray hastily
2. Perceive every word
3. Praying is not reading this or that number of prayers - it's better to have a definite time for prayer

The Jesus prayer in particular :
1. Everyone will benefit
2. There is no danger if you say it reverently and without "tricks" i.e. using artificial aids that hypnotize as some people have done to try and concentrate the mind on the prayer. Gregory of Sinai wrote about this and the fact that it plunged some people into a "dreamy state of enchantment". The name of the Lord must be said in a simple heartfelt way.

St. Theophan says :
"This prayer is in fact the fruit of the grace of the Holy Spirit.... All the rest that was invented, has nothing to do with it; it is the Enemy that is trying to distract us from the prayer"

Talk this over with your spritual advisor and do as he tells you to.

I have a prayer rope and say the Jesus Prayer on all the knots apart from the two at the top and the bottom - I say the Lord's prayer at the first knot and Psalm 23 at the middle knot. I have found this to be both practical and right for me personally. I also say the Jesus Prayer whenever I remember to during the day. You will find that it soon becomes a natural part of your day - and doesn't involve counting the number of times you say it.

Effie

Read the whole text of "Let us learn to pray - Advice given by Holy Theofan the Recluse". I have printed it and have included it in a book I have concerning prayer in general. I have also included a terrific essay on the Orthodox Hours and have been trying to incorporate them into my daily routine - I haven't been successful yet because I keep forgetting but I hope to improve.

[John Curtis Dunn]

2. The Jesus Prayer is also something which should not be approached
by the newly-converted, for it can be spiritually dangerous for the
untried. This is so because their is a certain spiritual intensity
involved in the Jesus Prayer, for in time it descends to the heart and
becomes permanent there. However, the hater of Christ and the
destroyer of souls wages particularly viscious warfare against those
who would attempt to say the Prayer of the Heart before they are "in
condition," that is, discerning enough to be cautiouis. Over the
years, we have had people who have showed up here claiming to be
accomplished in the Prayer. Alas, more often than not, they were
seriously deluded, and with the increased temptaions which are to be
experienced in a monastery, they basically went over the edge and
sometimes began to act in a very bizarre mnner. Later we were rto hear
th the person had either had some sorer of a break down, or had left
the Church altogether..

-----------
I and my wife can give a witness to the counsel in Father Averky's post. For a brief account of our own experience in this regard, see the thread on the Jesus prayer, and my Post on Sunday 13 january, 2002-4:48 am.

john dunn

[Warren Bensinger]

Effie=20

" I have also included a terrific essay on the Orthodox Hours and have = been trying to incorporate them into my daily routine - I haven't been = successful yet because I keep forgetting but I hope to improve. "

Thank you for your words of encorragement to us all. If you have a = site that the above essay on "The Hours" is avalible or can send a file, = please forward. Thank you. I to am trying to keep the hours. I = started by keeping them on Wed. and Fri.. They are an excelent reminder = of what those days are for. Then I've tryed to expand it to the other = "weekdays". Thanks to modern technology my cell phone has an allarm = that I can set for hours and days. At 9:00, 12:00 and 3:00 a little = beep goes off and will go off every 5 min. till I acknowledge it. I = have a little book I picked up at the local monistary that has an = abreveated reading and prayer for the hours. It only takes about 5 min. = or less.

Thanks again for your help.

warren

t.s.

[Effie Ganatsios]

For an explanation of our daily, weekly, monthly and yearly Orthodox cycle :

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7118.asp
http://www.orthodoxworld.ru/english/worship/2/
http://www.roca.org/OA/53-54/53m.htm




The prayers and psalms for each hour can be found at :

http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm

The Myriobiblos site also has all the Orthodox prayers on-line.

Warren, your cell phone system sounds good - I need something similar because I get involved with something and forget about the hours.

effie

[Effie Ganatsios]

Warren, something else that you might like and can download and listen to when on your computer is a recording of the Bible.

This can be found at http://ffmp3.firefighters.org/kjv.htm

This is the Firefighters for Christ site and is truly wonderful. I thank God for what these people have done. The recordings are free and can also be downloaded as zip files which means that it doesn't take long to download them.



Effie

p.s.don't download the Proverbs chapter - for some reason it has been recorded at a faster speed than normal.

[Fr Averky]

Dear in the Lord Laura,

Owen is quite right when he suggests that you speak to your pastor, the priest to whom you confess, for he will have a better idea as to what would be good for you personally in regards to prayers. I can only speak generally here.

Listen to Effie, for her advise on this thread is very good: in all things we need to be moderate, and as she puts it very well, it is not a matter of the numbers of prayers said, but the prayers. I have mentioned on another thread that St. John of Kronstadt says, "It is better to say a few prayers well than a lot of prayers poorly." Sayng your prayers should not be seen a "goal," or to be considered as a "drudge," but as that opportunity to open your heart to God and invite Him in. At the same time, as Effie says, it is a good thing to try to have set times in which you can devote time to concentrate on your prayhers.

A bishop of 19th Century Russia, Metropolitan Gregory, suggests saying little prayers all day long, like , "Lord have mercy on me" "My Lord, forgive me!" "Most Holy Mother of God save me!" " "My Guardian Angel, be at my side!" My mother was from an old Spanish family, and when she sneezed, she would always say, "Jesus mi vida," "Jesus my life," and when it was lightening and thundering, and a particularly loud thunder clap would be heard, she would exclaim, "Jesus, Maria i Jose!" - invoking the Holy Family. All during the day she would utter smalll prayers, or sing the "Salve Regina," and those little moments of piety are among my fond memories of her from my childhood. These tiny prayers are beneficial in that we are not only crying out to God, but that we are remembering Him and letting Him know that we are thinking about him. As I mentioned before, do not ask too much of yourself: God doesn't, He is pleased when you take time to think of Him.

God help you, Laura. Be calm, be patient.

Fr. A.

[George Hawkins]

Hi Laura.
Listen to Father Averky - he has given you excellent advise on the Jesus Prayer. The Way of a Pilgrim is a good book, but it is definately not 'milk', but solid food. I just recently re-read it after several years of not having even looked at it, and found so much that has been beneficial for me - but which completely was over my head when I first read the book. Keep the book - put it away on a shelf for now, and read it again in a few years time.
George

[Laura Nee]

Thank you all for your most generous, thoughtful and warm replies. I will be putting away the book for a time. Unfrtunately, I think it became a tool of the evil one in an attempt to discourage me as I learn more about living out the true faith I have now found.

I will be speaking to my priest on this matter as soon as possible. I rise before my children in the morning so as to be able to say my morning prayers uninterrupted and have found myself uttering "The Jesus Prayer" throughout the day when I need to call Him close to me to help me fight off temptations and when life just goes crazy (as it often does with two young children). I am also making time in the evening to concentrate on saying it with my whole heart as many times as I am able. Father A's advice seemed to echo this practice and it was very heartening.

Thank you all for sharing the journey with me.

Laura

[Warren Bensinger]

Effie

"p.s.don't download the Proverbs chapter - for some reason it has been recorded at a faster speed than normal. "

Maybe they need it faster because of there work?

Thank you for the site's and words. I have a copy of the Bible recordings to play in my car as I travel, but I don't turn on my radio anymore.
I found out when I started the Jesus Prayer that I didn't have any desire to listen to music or talk shows or news programs after I found a friend to talk to. I have enough "trash" in my head to fight let-a-lone inviteing more in. :^)
Thank you again and a blessed Nativity to you and yours as well as to all the rest on Monachos.
With increasing love.
warren
t.s.

[Fr Averky]

Dear George,

Thank you and John Curtis Dunn: The Optina Elder, St. Ambrose says:

"Always say the prayer ( of Jesus) with the lips for it is not profitable to say it in the mind-you can be damaged.."

"At least whisper the prayer (of Jesus). Many have been harmed by mental prayer."

It is sometimes very difficult to convince people that they are not spiritually mature enough to read a few books and then to embark on the path of asceticism without a spiritual guide, and without prior having weathered temptations, which at times can be very subtle.

George is very correct when he says that the Way of the Pilgrim, while being a very good book, should not be applied to the life of a new convert. I mentioned about a month ago, that for the first tome inj 27 years I came upon my old copy of "Unseen Warfare," and started to read it. Within the first half hour I realized that in a sense, I was reading it for the first ime because having suffererd so many trials, having had to deal with so many temptaions, and as a priest, having heard confessions and having helped others who had fallen into various traps of the Evil One because of their pride and unwillingness to even cooperate, the book was a "revelation," for now I truly underestood what it meant. As Effie says, if we make use of the Jesus Prayer in a proper manner, such as when we are standing in Church and begin to drift off, when we are ill or have to be patient, then we can say it. It becomes dangerous when one attempts, without competance, to approach the deeper mystery of the Prayer of the Heart without the blessing of a priest and without speaking to a person who has suffered some of the temptations which befall the person who is not strong enough.

To all of you on the Gregorian calendar, may God our Infant Saviour bless you and yours on the Bright Feast of His birth with health, prosperity, peaceful hearts, all good things, and especially Salvation.

With much love in Christ,

hieromonk Averky

[Xenia]

Hello Laura,

Fr. Averky's advice is excellent, especially when he advises us mothers to say our morning and evening prayers faithfully, to attend Liturgy often, and to keep the fasts as best as we can. I read The Way of a Pilgrim and developed a silly yearning in my heart to leave home and wander about, mumbling a prayer I was too inexperienced to understand. Not that I was going to actually do this, you know, but I became discontent in my home life. It seemed like the Pilgrim hardly felt he was saved, with all his effort, so how did I expect to get anywhere? But I listened to Fr. Averky and did the basics. My heart calmed down and I became content to stay at home and do the job God gave me.

But you can still say the Jesus Prayer. At lunch at work I go on a walk and say it as I walk. I often put myself to sleep at night saying it.

For Spiritual reading, you can follow the reading cycle of the church. I also have divided up the Psalms so I can read five of them each day, getting through all of them in a month. And I agree, there's nothing quite like reading the lives of Saints. The simpler the story, the better.

God bless you, dear sister!

-Xenia

[Jim Nee]

Father A.,

Father Bless!

I was wondering if you might expound a bit on your post #607 (http://www.monachos.net/cgi-bin/mb/show.cgi?tpc=4226&post=7608#POST7608). You mention therein: "The Jesus Prayer is also something which should not be approached by the newly-converted, for it can be spiritually dangerous for the untried. This is so because their is a certain spiritual intensity involved in the Jesus Prayer, for in time it descends to the heart and becomes permanent there. However, the hater of Christ and the destroyer of souls wages particularly viscious warfare against those who would attempt to say the Prayer of the Heart before they are "in condition," that is, discerning enough to be cautious."

I'm curious about this. I just read in Bishop Ware's book, The Orthodox Way, about hesychia prayer. Of course, contextually, it isn't something one simply jumps into. But his description of hesychia is something I unknowingly practice both now and long ago, especially when I'm trying to go to sleep. Let me explain.

My mind is so active that I must find something to concentrate on, something simple and specific, so I can actually fall asleep. Otherwise, I'll be up half the night thinking about this or that. In years past, I'd use Phill. 4:8. Just the other night, I used the Jesus prayer. Again, I consider this "accidental" prayer for my purpose was solely to focus on one thing in order to rest, and pragmatic in that "why not edify myself at the same time?!"

But the other night, after using the Jesus prayer to focus my mind so I could take a short nap on the couch, I awoke to the most vile of presences in my home. I haven't experienced anything like that in years. Years ago, when my heart was kindled for Christ and before I consciously left Him to pursue my own lusts, this type of presence would come often, particularly when I prayed. It was the words in the Bishop's book on hesychia coupled with the experience the other night that reminded me of your post. And hence, my desire to have you expound on your comments above.

Please forgive me if, in my pragmatism, I have cheapened the Jesus Prayer. My only intention was to have a focussed mind, and focus on something that could feed my soul.

Yours in Christ,

Jim N

[Jim Nee]

Babe, re: your post #11, Bishop Ware addresses this also in The Orthodox Way. Father A was "right on". The Bishop says of the book, The Way of the Pilgrim, "...his case is altogether most exceptional, and should in no way be regarded as the norm." Getting to this level of prayer, says the Bishop, is part of a much larger process (outline in Chapter 6). We have a way to go yet before we get there!

I know you haven't finished reading the book yet, so I wanted to let you know that this is also addressed in it, with quite some context surrounding it, as well as let the forum know.

xoxo,

Jim

Laura is my wife, folks, incase you were wondering why I called her "babe". http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif With three kids, we communicate any way we can and whenever we can, even if it's over the internet!

[Rose]

I would like to offered a small portion of my own personal experience with The Jesus Prayer. I began praying this prayer on my own with the prideful thought that "I knew what was best for me". The weeping tears that I experienced saying The Jesus Prayer intensified, so I naturally felt that I was accomplishing much. Even though I was cautioned by others (even at this site) I continued. One phrase that Matthew (our moderator) once said was that he would pray for me in my "struggles". That one word stuck in my confused mind. I proudly thought "what stuggles!", I'm praying The Jesus Prayer and growing closer to God in holiness. Oh foolishness! Oh stupid pride! One horrific day, as I succumbed to lustful temptations, my pride was overwhelmed with the sinful ignorance I was feeding. Now trembling, I fearfully pray never to experience that day again. If our Savior will grant me the priviledge of giving anyone advice, it would be "be careful" ... "be very careful".

Now I concentrate on putting myself in the presence of God throughout the day. I still pray The Jesus Prayer, but without the forced intensity I did before and only for about 10 to 15 minutes a day. I make it a point to review my day with our Lord before retiring ... seeing where I failed to follow His way in my thoughts and interactions with others. If any poor accomplishments were made (and they are few and far between) I gratefully thank the Holy Spirit for His gracious intervention.

I am drawn to sit in front of an icon of Christ and do so in silence. His comforting gaze nourishes me greatly and quiets my rambling thoughts.

My confessor is most humble and I learn much from him. I am only a small child who has begun the most important journey in life.

Please pray for me,
Rose