Logismoi: combatting the thoughts

[wb thompson]

A friend tells me that this is the word used to denote random thoughts that occur during prayer, or I suppose any kind of unintended, random thought.

What kinds of challenges do they pose for laypeople, as opposed to monastics?

[Owen Jones]

Certainly you wouldn't consider monastics as some species other than human. It's the same challenge for anyone who prays.

[sinjin smithe]

I have problems with this a lot. Some days are worse than others, does anyone have suggestions to combat this?

[wb thompson]

Owen,
Of course I don't consider monastics as some other species. But they are, I presume, in an environment that supports specific spiritual battles. As for me, I do about one-fiftieth of the praying and spiritual reading I need to do. I have worldly obligations that monastics don't have. As a result, I think I may be a weaker athlete in spiritual matters. I know it's all a matter of grace in the end, but there's a reason laypeople and monastics have different designations.

[Elizabeth Riggs]

Blessed Fr. Ignatius Brianchaninov has much wisdom to share with us. In "On the Prayer of Jesus," he points out (in part) "The God-fearing Fathers, in expounded the teaching on this prayer [the Jesus Prayer], affirm that its beginning and its unshakable foundation is true obedience, from which is born true humility; and jumility guards him who labours in prayer from all the delusions which dog eht self-directed. But it is quite impossible for laypeople to acquire true monastic obedience and perfect denial [cutting off] of the will and reason in everything. So how can laypeople without d=obedience, bu self-direction which is accompanied by delusion, force themselves to such an awful and terrifying work, that is, to such paryer, without any kind of guidance? How will they be able to escape the diverse and varied illusions of the enemy most cunningly direted against this prayer and those who practise it?"

He goes on to give some direction for beginners:
"....Undoubtedly among all the ways the first place must be given to the way proposed by St. John of the Ladder, since it is particularly easy, absolutely safe, necessary and even indispensable if prayer is to be effectual; and it is suitable for all Christians living piously and seeking salvation, both monks and laypeople."

In one of the books I read (sorry, can't remember which, now) one of the Russian fathers likens tryhing to clear one's mind of extraneous thoughts to transporting a wagonload of monkeys that keep jumping off. One has to keep picking up the monkeys and putting them back on the wagon.

I think we, who live in such a "mickey-d" society in which everything is instantaneous expect our progress to be swifter than is realistic. Just as athletes must prepare their bodies for months and years for their feats of athleticism, so it will take years of practice to achieve true concentration in prayer. It is just as hard as lifting weights or gymnastics or running a marathon.

Of course, there is much that has been written by the Fathers to help us, but all the reading in the world won't help us unless we get up off our duffs and "do it." So, for daily prayers, we need simply to "do it." If we want to move up to the Jesus Prayer, we need a good guide, and we need to realize that as laypeople we cannot achieve and probably should not even try to achieve the feats of prayer of the Hesychasts. It simply isn't realistic. We should, however, continue to strive to abhor distractions and to will ourselves to not give in to the distractions.

Love in Christ,
Elizabeth
PS - I'm working on it, but haven't achieved it. As a married layperson, there are unavoidable distractions - panicked children, a spouse needing help *now*, a cat who makes a mess in the middle of prayers, the telephone which rings - we simply have to get up and try again. That's what Orthodoxy is about - fall down, get up, fall down, get up - again and again and again. It is in the struggle that we will triumph over ourselves.

[Owen Jones]

The problems are different in degree, not in kind, I should think. That was my only point that I made quite sarcastically. Sorry for that.

[Owen Jones]

The best guidance I have had on this is from St. Theophan the Recluse who has a short text on prayer. It has specific directions on how to rid oneself of distractions in prayer. It works. There is a companion course that has been written by an OCA priest that is good for a prayer group that includes journaling. We were practicing this as a small mission without a priest. Of course, when the priest came in he through all of that nonsense out and started giving lectures on Church history. Which raises an important question. I keep hearing on this site and elsewhere that you've got to have experienced guidance in prayer, especially the Jesus Prayer, but where is it? Frankly, I think most of you are quite competent and could probably provide a lot of guidance to the priests you know on how to pray.

[wb thompson]

Yes, Owen, one is always told that a) one must have a guide and b) there are no guides! It is frustrating. From what I have gathered, the biggest no-no seems to be searching for some kind of "spiritual experience."

[Moses Anthony]

Having a guide is o.k. in and of itself.The real trap in prayer is looking for some type of other-worldly experience, ie; the uncreated light. Satan is all to willing to provide any "experience" we're looking for if it will facilitate snaring us in darkness and death!

t.u.s.

[wb thompson]

I just ordered "Ascending the Heights", by Fr. John Mack. Looks like an excellent book.

[Margaret Jackson-Roberts]

I am currently practising Buddhist meditation techniques, which adopt a mantra (eg the word om, or anything else one chooses) as a focus for returning to the centre of one's being. The ideal is of course to go deeper than any need for words. This state of altered consciousness can be achieved quite readily with practice and involves an absolute emptying of the conscious mind: indeed, an ascent beyond conscious thought to where distractions cease. And this can be managed without using any psychotropic substances (magic mushrooms, etc). It helps to start by concentrating totally on an object such as a light or candle flame, a statuette (of Buddha, or I suppose a favourite saint would do) or an icon and letting the rhythms of mind and body gradually harmonise in contemplating it. The rest then follows in time.

the seeker

[Owen Jones]

Dear Margaret,

Let's chuck it all and run off to Bhutan together.

[Loretta Smith]

Greetings to All in Christ

I'd like to chime in here with some personal techniques that have been beneficial for me.

I say The Jesus Prayer throughout the day randomly. It keeps me focused on The Lord while crowding out sinful thoughts and attitudes.

In the evenings, I shut out as much of the distrupting environment as possible so that I&#39;m in as quiet place as I can make it. Then before I begin The Jesus Prayer I empty my mind and heart of all those continuous thoughts by talking to The Lord about them. I tell Him <u>very honestly</u> all that I&#39;m thinking, worrying about, how I feel about things, how I feel about Him, everything that comes to mind. This tends to be a very draining experience, but when I begin The Jesus Prayer it seems that I have practically no disturbing thoughts as I&#39;ve already given them to Him.

wb - I&#39;ve read &#34;Ascending the Heights&#34;, by Fr. John Mack - an excellent humbling book.

[Owen Jones]

This is what some of the desert fathers practiced -- known as confession of thoughts. It is a lost art and I am grateful that you have posted this message.

[Mark Flory]

It is well to remember the advice of the desert fathers: only a very few can utterly eliminate random thoughts and passions; the goal for most of us is merely to control them. The mind WILL wander, it is its nature. Our goal is through will-power and grace to hold it when it would stray. On this point, also the reminder of St. Theophan the Recluse is pertinent: at the time of prayer, admit no extraneous thoughts, EVEN PIOUS ONES. Focus only on the words of the prayer. At times, one will come to a place where the words themselves move us to a silence more profound than words. St. Theophan advises us at this point to stop, and be in that silence. In this instance, we have achieved what he terms &#40;in his little book on the Art of Prayer&#41; &#34;the principle of reciprocal action,&#34; in which we access the spiritual energy invested in the prayer by the author of the prayer. Finally, I like the image that a Hindu author used in a book I read long ago: when we try to still our thoughts, they go wild like rats fleeing a sinking ship. Oh, how true!

[Bill Culpepper]

What is the place of the Holy Spirit in Orthodox prayer? Is it not the Holy Spirit that interceeds for us, especially when we cannot articulate our deepest desire for union with the Triune God? Or even express our longing for forgiveness, or joy in Christ, etc,.

It seems that too many Orthodox have forgotten what is central to Orthodox spirituality: life in the Holy Spirit.

Celebrating 35 years of Orthodoxy.

Bill, a\k\a Vasili

[Hermit]

I find a good amount of exercise or work &#40;in solitude&#41; helps quiet the mind a bit. Monastics have always alternated work with prayer and contemplation for that reason, among others.

The Jesus Prayer can be employed as a sort of mantra, but it&#39;s best to keep the meaning close to your heart with the repetitions .... the key difference between Buddhism and Christianity is our belief in a personal God ... I think the repetitions could become vain if we aren&#39;t careful.

So personally I go for a strenous walk, then sit and compose my mind with some rote prayers, Catholic devotions, and sometimes the Jesus Prayer &#40;I say it once before almost everything&#41;. Then I do some freestyle prayers, and finish with a bit of silent contemplation &#40;I&#39;m Catholic&#41;. But honestly, the &#34;logismoi&#34; aren&#39;t much better after all these years!

About the Holy Spirit ... I think the more we chase after God, the more the Holy Spirit works within us.

[demetrios karaolanis]

I personally like to stop once every few times I say the Jesus prayer and think on it&#39;s meaning to keep it from becoming a vain repitition. It is always good to do this. I think it is a great devotion to say throughout the day to keep your mind from wandering toward worldly vain things.