Role of spiritual father / spiritual guide

[Johanna]

Could someone tell me what the role of a spiritual father/spiritual director is and also what is needed from the person to whom he/she is guiding? I had an Orthodox friend tell me the other day that I should not be telling my spiritual father very much about my life, that it was none of his business and that was not his job. This is not my understanding at all. How can my spiritual father guide me if he knows nothing about what’s going on in my life?

Thanks so much for any help on this issue.

In Christ,

Johanna

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Johanna,
Christ is in our midst

This is the type of question I feel better trying to answer in this community setting where others may also speak- for a spiritual father is not just one thing. And there are several very important issues (your friend's assertion refers to one at least) on which there are different views. Also I believe that as one 'goes on' (hopefully growing) in the Faith ones' perception about this question also changes. In any case after this long-winded introduction (and sincerely hoping for comments from others) here goes.

A spiritual father is that person - usually but not always- a priest- to whom you have entrusted the guidance of your life in Christ. The spiritual father intercedes for you before God. There is a strong element of faith here and of trust because in time the spiritual child learns from experience that trust in ones' spiritual father bears great fruit- God working in the trusting heart to an extent rarely seen elsewhere. Of course there enters in here the issue of obedience- but not blind obedience rather a trusting obedience. In time one learns that in a quite incredible way trusting ones' spiritual father is to allow God to enter more fully into your life.

Now as to your friend's comment that 'so much of your life is none of a spiritual father's business';this is very wrong and harmful (and seems to show fear concerning the things of God).

In time we must learn to trust our whole life in the hands of our spiritual father. Of course there is the crucial issue of the self-appointed guru who dominates and abuses the souls of others- but here the relationship between the spiritual father & child must be one of trust & freedom not abuse. As this relationship grows so does what is revealed and dealt with. The spiritual child is God's servant not the spiritual father's.

This brings up the delicate issue however that not all priests you confess with are called to be your spiritual father. St Ignatios Brianchaninov warns strongly about the need for discernment before entrusting the deeper issues of your soul to 'just anyone'; all priests may be able to hear your confession (in the Russian Church at least) but not all priests (not even the parish priest you confess to) are called to be your spiritual father. This can seem a bit confusing until in time you experience the difference- for the parish priest truly also guides and intercedes for one (and just to be a bit more confusing he can be your spiritual father). The second book about Fr Arseny reveals the marks of that special relationship between spiritual father & child; a depth sometimes not tolerated by many of us. Praying there is some help amid this jumble of words.

In Christ- Fr R

[Fr Averky]

Dear Johanna,

Good thing you asked about "Orthodox" "friend's" remark that "your life is not your spiritual Fathers's business are not the words of a person who understands the life of the
Church, and as a matter of fact,a knowledgeable friend would ever give such advice. There are still no small numbers of people who go to confession once a year, mumble a few awkward and meaningless words, causing the priest to take upon himself all of his sins, and goes away unhealed.

Yet, sad to say, that attitude is all too common. I have an adult God child who came to our Church by way of a rather strange route. He was for everal years a "priest" of an organized esoteric group here in the U.S He drives me almost to despair, for after having been in our Church for 12 years, after having -faithfuloly kept the fasts, fulfilled all his obligations as a Christian husband and father,he still has no notion of being humble and accepting spiritual authority. Because of this, he does not yet know what it is to live Orthodoxy as his life.

He is always complaining that he stands before his icon, prays very sincerely for some time, and asks God to give him a "sign: concerning such and such. Oe Sunday, he called me, furious because he prayed and prayed, and begged for God to reveal to him in some manner, what he should do. So, as he told me, "I went to church, stood and waited, and guess what? Nothing happened! I had to bight my finger not to laugh out loud, because he was dead serious.

Our relatioinship hads been strained because on two occasions when he was pouting or stamping his feet, I pointed out the folly of his views and that he has to humble himself and not expect God to do something because he asked for it. At this, he started screaming at me, telling me I know nothing he goes trhough and how hard it is and that we monks have all this time to "hang out and pray," wile we in the world have to worry about bill and food and clothing!" I asked him just where he tought we got all that we need-we work, and often 6 days a week, ten or eleven hours d y.This happened twice, and the last time we spoke, I told him never to scream at me again beccause I am a priest, I am a monk and I am older than he. His response was "I only yell when you condemn and judge me!" And at that point, I realized that his progress, as I have long suspected, is negligable.

My last words were that it would be good for him to find a spiritual Father to who he could turn, could bare his soul and tell him truthfully about himself, and then offered two very good monks he might contact. He said very angrily, "I do not know of a single person who has a spiritual father!"

As Father Raphael tells you, trust is the key-just as we have to come to trust God before we can know Him, so do we have to find a spiritual physician in whom we will be willing to trust. And, as Fr. Ambrose said, such an Elder is rare, yet there are so many good and humble priests, most likely your own parish priest, if you can both start off together in love and trust and concern, God will richly bless His priest with just the words to say and at the right time. In my own life of as a priest, I have walked ijto situation in which I had no idea whatsoever as to what to ssay , and yet, by God's kercy, I had all the right words.


Allow me to suggest to you, or anyone that it is not a good thing to bare your soul to people you do not know well-our life's pain is that part of us which is most veneravble, and even if "telling all" soothes us for the mojent it is ony temporary, and they can can come back to cause you even more grief. Surely speaking to your priest, revealing your sins and sorrows to God with him as a witnessis of any real value.

Your friend's opinion is all too common, made out of ignornce of the Church and because of a lack of trust in God and his clergy stemkiong from of all her own sorrows. There is not one of almost any person you might ever meet who could not tell you about a life of abuse physical or sexual, mistreatment, loneliness, rejection, being treated unfairly, abandoned, or living in dire poverty, either about themselves or a loved one. I a strange way it can become a deadly form of pride, for as ugly as itr might have been, still we are different than others. More often than not, we prefer to go around hauling our "Marley's chains" of past unhappiness, groaning about how awful our lives have been, rather than rejoicing in all God has given us, how despite everything, we are alive, and as Orthodox Christians, we are even more alive! We cannot live the past over and over again. It does nothing but ruin ourlives and dampen the lives of our loved ones.


If Jesus Christ is God, if He truly died on the Cross and conquered death and rose on the Third Day, then we too, having risen with Him as we joined ourselves to Him, should now spent the rest of our lives preparing for Eternity with Him, casting from us forever, the dark happenings of the past and saying "poor little me." Well, we just to live with itgive up

And it is the Mystery of confession, and speaking to God's holy priest that you have ample opportunity to accomplish this, We must be careful, lest by holding on wilfully to past sorrows, we slip away - We simply need to trust in God and He will tke care of everything.

Fr. A.

[Johanna]

Dear Fr. Raphael and Fr. Averky,

Thank you so much for your responses to my question about spiritual fathers. I felt my friend’s statements were not Orthodox, but wanted to hear from some of you. Being so young in the faith, there is much to learn. One important thing I must learn is obedience. Seems in America obedience is not very popular, but I am beginning to learn just how important it is. Again, your answers have been helpful and are so appreciated. Please pray for me.

Yours in Christ,

Johanna

[Jim Nee]

Fr.s Averky and Raphael,

Praying for you health and God's blessings, I ask your holy prayers and archpastoral blessing.

Fr. A, I am so pleased to see you posting on the boards again. I remembered you to my priest, as you asked, and he remembered you during the Great Entrance this past Sunday. Thank you both for your words in this matter. They are most timely.

[Jim Nee]

You know, the more I try to show respect the more botched up it gets! Sorry about the "archpastor" part in the message. I'm attempting to learn a reasonable protocol for addressing a priest, and after I copy/pasted I realized I wasn't signed in. So I signed in and then forgot to edit the copy/paste to adjust "archpator"! Please be understanding... http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif

[Fr Averky]

Jim,

YUou flatter me! An Archpastoral blessing is that given by a bishop. I am but a small worker in the far fields of the Lord. I gladly invoke God's blessing you and your wife for the struggle to come: be patient, and never forget that "God is with us"

Please tell your good priest that I kiss his hand as his brother priest, and thank him for his holy prayers before the altar of God on my behalf.

Love in Christ,

hieromonk Averky

[Deiniol Clarke]

Tieing in with this, does the church teach that all men are equal? Does it teach that priests are "favoured" among God (so to speak.) The only reason I ask, is because at communion I hear the priest saying "the unworthy Priest...part takes" - this is not so with the rest of the congregation. Also, are priests equal to laymen?

In Christ,
Deiniol

[Melissa]

Deiniol,

There are others who will be able to answer you more completely, but for a personal answer - I consider my priest to be not "better" than I (we're all sinners), but called to a task of a higher order than I, and therefore deserving of the respect accorded to an elder (not referring to age!)- so better in that sense. I have been taught that priests are called "to a higher standard" than lay people, which is not for a moment meant to imply that we lay people don't need to strive to be as obedient and loving and faithful as a life of trying can make us. If I understand it correctly, our priests, on behalf of the Bishop who acts for Christ, shepherd us in the faith. The priest is our spiritual leader, so indeed we are not "equal" in that sense.

The only reason I ask, is because at communion I hear the priest saying "the unworthy Priest...part takes" - this is not so with the rest of the congregation

I think we have many opportunities as members of the congregation to humble ourselves by remembering our unworthiness. In our church the communion hymn during much of the year is in part "...but like the thief will I confess thee, remember me O Lord, remember me O Lord, in Thy kingdom." Approaching the Eucharist from this humble but trusting position, acknowledging my unworthiness, is what I've been taught to do - much as the priest does when he says "the unworthy priest..."

Also, we are each asked to examine our conscience before God, in prepartion for Holy Communion. This is often in confession, of course, but also at least daily ourselves, and definitely as we move toward the priest to partake of the Body and Blood of Christ. And that is in addition to all the times we ask for mercy during the liturgy. If we participate in the liturgy simply as observers, without repentance and contrition, sorrow at our sinfulness and joy at the knowledge of being loved by Christ, we are missing out on the great privilege and blessing we have been given to work out our salvation with our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Deiniol, your persistence and willingness to learn is admirable. This is what I've been taught, so I trust that if I've given you any misleading information, someone else will correct it.

Melissa

[Daniel Jeandet]

The Church teaches that every soul is of equal worth. God loves all people equaly. He even loves the demons just as much as he loves the Saints. It is only because of passions and sin and ignorence and pride that we presume to categorize people according to what we percieve to be thier worth , usefulness or whatever. The priest in this prayer declares himself to be unworthy, along with the people who have prepared for Holy Communion by reading the prayers of preparation in which they express their own unworthiness and I believe we also say before taking communion that we are the chief of sinners. No-one is worthy of Holy Communion, especially unworthy are those who think they have rendered themselves worthy by thier works.

[Deiniol Clarke]

Thanks for your replies it's cleared a lot up for me. In the parish that I have attended before the Greek Church that I go to now - the priest is saw as in the "Western" sense. Only lately have I learned that the Orthodox Church gives a lot of respect to priests more so that in the west - this has been a major fault of mine and I repent. I suppose as I become more knowledgeable about the church new doors will open.

It is interesting that you say God loves even the demons as much as us!! I personally think that's such a demonstration of the splendour of God.

Thanks all in Christ,
Deiniol

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Melissa,

I am not sure that priests are called to a higher standard than the rest of the faithful; I believe that we are all equally called to and can attain the same standard which is virtue.

The distinction (is this perhaps a better word than difference?) between the priesthood & the laity is that the priesthood is a unique sacrament; it is a sacrament that bestows the charism to allow what is a weak person, to shepherd others towards the Kingdom of God. Guiding others towards the Kingdom is the love of the priest for his people and this is his way of sharing with them.

Last night I was speaking with someone and we both mentioned priests that others (even bishops) had vilified due to some personal weakness. But what we both remarked on was that in both cases there were those who loved those priests as being those who truly led them to God. Just as some see the weakness and not the priest, others are blind to the weakness and see only the priest. This I feel is important and goes back to the question that started this 'sub-thread'; priests are not better than any others in the Church. Rather they are given that grace to shepherd others towards the Kingdom, and that grace affects those who are personally attentive to that effort.

In Christ- Fr R

[Fr Averky]

Dear Deiniol,

As you see, if you approach your questions with humility and a sincere desire to be taught and not to teach, there are so many good and kind people who are willing to share not only knowledge, but experience with you. We are all made in the image and likeness of God, and as such, are icons of Christ. If we see Christ in everyone, then we give them the love and respect that we expect ourselves to be given. Our Saviour speaks of this Himsef more than once in the Holy Gospel.

Just as that which God rules, a heavenly kingdom, so the Church is a hierarchy, with the bishops ruling a diocese, and priests representing his authority in the parish and presiding over the Divine Services and administering the Holy Mysteries. Orthodox bishops and priests are worthy of respect because they have been given the grace of their holy offrice from an unbroken chain going back to the time of the Apostles, first bisjops of the Church. by God to see to His people on earth. The bishops have the fullness of grace, so they can consecrate other bishops, ordain and rule.

In the Christian home, the father is the "king" of his little spiritual kingdom, and thus the head of the family. The wife is the queen, and she is the heart of the home, responsible for the spiritual upbringing of the children. This is why the marriage service in the Orthodox Church is called the "crowning," as the couple has crowns placed over their heads by the priest, joining them as man and wife.

God has set up governments. In the Gospel, our Lord tells us to "render to Ceasar that which is Ceasar's, and to God that which is God's" In his Epistles, St. Pauls tell us that we must obey governments put over us.

All these aspects are under God, and among men there are various ranks of authority, in governments, in armies, even in the Church to keep needed order. Sadly, because of our sinful nature, we sometimes fall into politics, intrigues and worst of all, war and the killing of our fellow man.

The Church is the Ark of Salvation and to be on it, we must obey the teachings and dogmas of the Church willingly and lovingly. We all have an equal chance for salvation, but that is gained only by our own effort. Great kings have lost their souls, and simple farmers have reached heaven. And Deiniol, I pray that you will too.

Fr. a.

[Deiniol Clarke]

Bless Fathers, Dear All,

Of course, Father, as I have said, you are right about the humility in posting. Thank you for your post.

There seems to be many answers to a question I think doesn't really matter. I know I must revere priests and above at all times, because of their office given to them. What I mean is, we are all under God so questions like this do not matter.

Fr, R, I never thought about the priesthood as an extra sacrament until now; that is a good way to look at it for me - simple and easy for my little head to understand!! I can now justify what the church teaches to me - which is always good!

Yours in Christ humbly,
Deiniol

[Melissa]

Dear Father Raphael,

Yes, you are right - I was thinking more about expectations when I wrote my answer, I can see that now. And it is true - although maybe not appropriate - that I do expect priests to be more experienced in the faith and more knowledgeable about living our faith than I, and able to guide me, but not that they are called to a different standard.

Thank you.
Melissa

[Arsenios]

The question I have is: How does one find and approach a spiritual father?

I received a loving rebuke a couple of weeks ago from a woman in my parish who asked me if I had a spiritual father. I only get to Church on Sundays, living some 65 miles away and struggling with two jobs and more, so I kinda sputtered and said "Well, no, not really - Fr. is functioning as my spiritual father in confession, sort of, but I don't really have one..."

And the rejoinder was: "You need a spiritual father. Pray to God for one."

And my sense of the conversation that followed was that having a spiritual father opens the next level of one's walk in the faith, and that without one, the struggle will be very long and slow indeed...

Sigh...

So, of course, I have been forgetting to pray for one - It goes on my prayer list today... And this post goes on this list... Now.

And I just found out today as well that Fr. Averky had reposed...

Memory Eternal Father A!

You are sure alive in my little memory!

Arsenios

[Father Anthony]

>I received a loving rebuke a couple of weeks ago from a woman in my=20 parish who asked me if I had a spiritual >father. I only get to Church on=20 Sundays, living some 65 miles away and struggling with two jobs and more,=20 so I >kinda sputtered and said "Well, no, not really - Fr. is functioning=20 as my spiritual father in confession, sort of, but I >don't really have=20 one..." > >And the rejoinder was: "You need a spiritual father. Pray to God for one."

The advice you received was poor. Under normal conditions one's Spiritual=20 Father is in fact one's Pastor, one's Parish Priest or other Priest serving= =20 the parish. The reasons for having a different Spiritual Father are quite=20 special and do not at all apply to most of us. As you describe your=20 situation, you are doing *exactly* the correct thing.

It is your Parish Priest/Confessor who administers the Mysteries to you and= =20 who is charged by the Church to minister to the faithful in the parish. The= =20 Grace of the Priesthood is sufficient for him and you in that relationship.= =20 To seek a Spiritual Father other than the Priest who knows you, administers= =20 the Mysteries to you, and is in a very special way responsible for your=20 spiritual welfare and salvation is - under most conditions - a serious= mistake.

Fr. Anthony

[Moses Anthony]

Dear George,

I remember reading in the first book about Fr. Arseny, his saying to a spiritual child of his that he was not ready for a 'spiritual father'. It's a treemendous responsibility for the both of them, for the child obligates him/herself to follow the counsel of the spiritual father. Being in such a position as a spiritual guide obligates you to know the person before you, and much more importantly, to walk closely with God.

Ask questions of people you know who have a spiritual father; observe the outcome of the counsel given to them as they obey; but more than anyhting PRAY, PRAY, PRAY, for your heavenly Father knows what you need, even before you ask.

an unworthy servant

[Thorny Grace]

Greetings,

I am new here and I believe this may be my first post.

My struggle at the moment is related directly to this thread. I hope to become a catachumen in September and have to decide which parish to do this in.

One church is a 30 minute drive away and is a tiny congregation in which no members live near me. However, the Priest is a very devout man who follows the traditions of the church more closely than the other priest (commented on below). I really admire him and find him both humble and devout. (which really is the same thing, isn't it?)

The other church is right in the small city I live in. The congregation lives near me. However, the Priest is very "modern" (his words, not mine). No one in the parish kisses his hands "except when the Bishop is here", he has a different kind of energy about him, almost being "hyper" and seems to be more emotionally expressive than the other priest. In this parish ladies never cover their heads, and things are more "relaxed" (his words, not mine.) (when I say his words, I am referring to the Priest of the congregation.) His man is also humble and devout and equally knowledgable and even about the same age as the other priest. (I believe both are a few years younger than I am and I am 40.)

In both congregations I have been warmly welcome.

Now, I am sharing more personal information with the local priest than the one out of town because he is of an ethnic background similar to my husband and my husband has been behaving unusually and I sought his advise to see if it was a clash of culture. (It isn't I was assured.)

I didn't feel comfortable sharing the same information with both Priest as I did not want varying opinions and advise in this time of crisis. However, the Priest out of town has been the one teaching me about Orthdoxy, giving me books to read and has a weekly adult education class even during the summer. (The local church does not do this in the summer months, and the Priest has been repeatedly out of town so we have hardly been able to talk.)

How do I decide which of these two men is to be my spiritual father? I pray about this during my morning and evening prayers daily as well as on my way to Saturday Vespers and Sunday Divine Liturgy (to and from these services I pray in the car.) I pray before services start too.

How else am I to know? How does God "tell" us the answer to such a prayer?

(sorry for such a long post.)

[Irene]

Dear Grace,

I believe that in your heart you know the answer to your question already.

My understanding of a spiritual father is both who we confess to and who we recieve spiritual advice outside of confession.

About a year ago, I did not know who to go to for confession, so with a feeling of <u>extreme</u> need to get myself on track, I went to the closest Orthodox Church to me which is not quite an hours drive away up the express way. It also happens to be a woman&#39;s monastery.

By the grace of God two Priests were at the service that day. The regular Priest who barely speaks english and the other who actually is Priest of another small English speaking parish, that I did not know existed, on the same monastery grounds.

I feel so intensely blessed to have such a spiritual person as my guide and he is only about an hour away from home. If I need I can also phone him to discuss problems and ask for advice. Or I have even emailed him explaining problems and he has phoned me back when he is available.

The Priest you need is the one that gives you peace. A true Spiritual Father leaves you with an understanding that minimises the stress caused by the pull of worldly troubles and increases your faith and trust in God.

I couldn&#39;t say that my life has gotten any easier but I am amazingly at peace with all that is thrown my way. I have also noticed a tremedous change in the peace and happiness within my children.

All the best to you, if you wish we would be pleased to pray for you.

In Christ
irene

[Thorny Grace]

Well, Irene, I am very grateful for your post. It is great to have another person who has been in a similar situation.

I still don&#39;t know which Priest. The one out of town doesn&#39;t even know about the crisis, so it is not fair to say that he has not been advising me so therefore should be crossed off the list.

The one who lives in town has not met with me as often as the other one and it was rather awkward sharing my personal and embarrassing crisis with him but since he understands Serbian&#39;s I sought his advice.

I am going to think very hard about what you said regarding peace. At the moment, whenever I attend Vespers or Divine Liturgy, I feel peace. Otherwise, I am miserable and frightened &#40;because of the personal crisis.&#41;

[John Curtis Dunn]

I didn&#39;t feel comfortable sharing the same information with both Priest as I did not want varying opinions and advise in this time of crisis. However, the Priest out of town has been the one teaching me about Orthdoxy, giving me books to read and has a weekly adult education class even during the summer.
------------

May God keep you safe from every evil.

john dunn

[Basil Shannon]

Thorny, I have a similar problem. My priest is also modern, and although I honor his position, I&#39;m not confident in his advice. I do not feel that I&#39;m in any position to judge his advice, but I can&#39;t comfortably put my spiritual life in his hands. I think it can be good to submit humbly, but this stilll leaves me wanting advice.

[Arsenios]

Basil writes:

&#34;My priest is also modern, and
I&#39;m not confident in his advice...
this stilll leaves me wanting advice.&#34;

That is why there are monasteries and pilgrimages...

Arsenios

[Basil Shannon]

If one existed within a 4-hour drive of my home, I would frequent it. Are there any monks who would like to move to the beautiful northeast Oklahoma area?

Basil

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Mr Basil Shannon,

Do e-mail me with more specific details on your location. There&#39;s a change I know of a few people in your environs to whom you might make approach.

INXC, Matthew